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Old 05-13-2013, 01:43 PM
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
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Originally Posted by Huisj View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with looking at how a guy compares to other starters around the league. When you compare pitchers, you compare starters to starters, closers to closers, and middle guys to middle guys. You don't say a starter is below average because there were 50 middle relievers who had a lower ERA and higher K/9 rate.
Right, you're right, that's what I'm doing. Just like you would compare SP to SP, I'm comparing Beckham (a 2B) to other 2B. I'm not saying he's average across the league, I'm saying he's average for his position.

Originally Posted by Huisj View Post
So if you picked, say, five teams in a division, and you wanted to know how each team's main second baseman compared to those on the other teams, you'd just look at the five starters. If instead you want to look at total production that each team got out of the second base position, you could include the utility guys who played some games at 2B.
OK, but if say, 1/3 of the league doesn't have a regular everyday 2B then who are you comparing to? Somebody has to fill those at bats.

Originally Posted by Huisj View Post
But why get mad at a guy for comparing a player to other players who are in the same position (in this case, starting second basemen)?
I'm not mad at him for comparing Beckham to whomever he wants, I just hate having to explain the same ****ing thing three times in a row.

If you want to limit yourself to just the 9 2B who last season qualified by hitting the 3.1 PA/G mark and therefore are "everyday" players, then you'd only be looking at approximately 5,362 plate appearances. 2B accrued 9,458 plate appearances in 2012, so you're essentially ignoring 45% of the league which explains how a guy like Beckham, who can be at the lower run of the "everyday starter" list can still essentially put up a league average 2B line; because even though he's not going to be an All Star, approximately 1/2 the time, an AL team is going to plug in some journeyman, AAAA player into the 2B role and yes, that is statistically significant, so having a guy who will give you his production for 582 plate appearance is still (wait for it)... league average for his position.

Originally Posted by Huisj View Post
Basically, there's a difference between comparing a player to another player and comparing a team's positional production to another teams positional production. They are both useful in their own way.
Yes, that's all true, but I will disagree with the notion that comparing a guy to his position's total production is still worthwhile because, as I've demonstrated, not every team is going to have an MLB-quality, everyday starting player at all 9 positions. Comparison's on a league-wide basis are still valid and valuable.

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