White Sox Interactive Forums
Talking Baseball

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Talking Baseball
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-28-2012, 06:34 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 17,394
Default HOF Ballot Announced: Liars, Cheaters, and Scumbags Included

2013 HOF Ballot Released

It would be nice for baseball to reward players (Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza) who played the game the right way by enshrining them, as their numbers are good enough. I hope Edgar Martinez makes it in eventually, as people may evaluate Frank Thomas in a similar fashion, although he spent a large portion of his career playing first base.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-28-2012, 06:37 PM
DumpJerry's Avatar
DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
Tom Feargal Hagen
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The hearts and minds of Sox fans on 10-26-05
Posts: 26,095
Default

__________________

All hail The Rick
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-28-2012, 07:08 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 16,373
Default

The Bonds vote will be interesting. I don't expect Sosa to have much support, but there is the school of thought thta Bonds would have been worthy without the home runs.

I wouldn't vote for Bonds or Sosa or McGwire if I had a vote. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm of the belief that blatantly cheating to gain an advantage is egregrious enough to nullify the achievements.

It really isn't about numbers anyway. I'm guessing that there are people who will vote for Omar Vizquel in five years who won't vote for Barry Bonds this year.

Maybe players no one suspects of cheating were cheating, too. But there is a difference between voting for a someone who disgraced the game and someone whose actions would have disgraced the game if outed. I would like to think that Tim Raines was clean, of steroids anyway. Maybe Raines will get enough support for the Hall of Fame to put up another plaque featuring an Expos cap.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-29-2012, 03:49 AM
Daver's Avatar
Daver Daver is offline
The Grand Wazoo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Suburbs
Posts: 26,642
Blog Entries: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
The Bonds vote will be interesting. I don't expect Sosa to have much support, but there is the school of thought thta Bonds would have been worthy without the home runs.

I wouldn't vote for Bonds or Sosa or McGwire if I had a vote. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm of the belief that blatantly cheating to gain an advantage is egregrious enough to nullify the achievements.

What is your definition of cheating?

The Niekro brothers wait patiently for an answer.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:39 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
What is your definition of cheating?

The Niekro brothers wait patiently for an answer.
As do all the players who used amphetamines for years and years.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-30-2012, 02:18 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Deep in the heart of Dixie
Posts: 4,437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
As do all the players who used amphetamines for years and years.
Amphetamine use can definitely give one a short term performance and energy boost. Over time it has the exact opposite affect. The literature is out there if you are curious. Long term amphetamine use is devastating to the mind and body. Not nearly the same thing as the designer PED's out there today. It's like comparing an abacus to a modern day super computer.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-29-2012, 03:25 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 16,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daver View Post
What is your definition of cheating?

The Niekro brothers wait patiently for an answer.
There is a difference between throwing a spit ball/corking bats and performance en chancing drugs. Gaylord Perry is in the Hall of Fame, essentially for being able to get away with thing, by his account, an account which may or not be exaggeration. Some people would consider it cheating if you took first on a pitch you knew didn't hit you when the umpire said it did. There are different levels of clean cheating as well. A Russian fencer once rigged up a device to show he was scoring touches on the electronic scoring device, but unless baseball umpiring went electronic, that's not the sort of thing you would have to worry about in baseball. Performance-en chancing drugs are on a completely different level.

There is even a difference between stimulants and anabolic steroids, Cheating really isn't the right category for anabolic steroids, although I'm not defending either. If you are competing against people taking illegal stimulants, there are measures you can take including legal stimulants, to perform at the same level. Anabolic steroids establish a sort of arms race. Staying clean while competing in that atmosphere is more difficult for many than competing in an atmosphere of illegal stimulants.

The answer to your question turns out to be vague, not unlike Potter Stewart's definition of pornography. Labeling steroid users simply as cheaters, though, ends up doing a disservice to other cheaters. Use of the word was probably ill-advised.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-28-2012, 07:07 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
2013 HOF Ballot Released

It would be nice for baseball to reward players (Bagwell, Biggio, Piazza) who played the game the right way by enshrining them, as their numbers are good enough. I hope Edgar Martinez makes it in eventually, as people may evaluate Frank Thomas in a similar fashion, although he spent a large portion of his career playing first base.
And you know those guys were clean how? The names that became public are just the tip of the iceburg.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-28-2012, 07:22 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 17,394
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jinx View Post
And you know those guys were clean how? The names that became public are just the tip of the iceburg.
I don't, but I also don't know that they weren't clean, and I don't advocate punishment just because they played in the same era as Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:10 PM
thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lombard
Posts: 23,653
Default

The first real test of the Steroid Era. Will be interesting to see how the voters respond, but I hope no one accused gets in.
__________________
Bullpen wanted
Good arms now being accepted at 333 W. 35th Street, Chicago
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:17 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Peoria, IL
Posts: 606
Default

"A wretched hive of scum and villainy."
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:18 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 17,394
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
The first real test of the Steroid Era. Will be interesting to see how the voters respond, but I hope no one accused gets in.
Sosa and McGwire definitely won't. Sosa's lone MVP award is tainted by PED use, and McGwire's numbers aren't anything special outside of his home run totals.

The situation revolving around Bonds and Clemens is much more interesting, as both had numbers worthy of the HOF before their alleged PED use occurred. Whether the voters take this into account is something I can't predict.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:31 PM
Moses_Scurry Moses_Scurry is offline
WSI's 2010 Preseason Prediction Contest Winner
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 3,063
Default

I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Sosa doesn't get enough of a percentage to remain on the ballot.
__________________
What is Mind? -- Doesn't Matter!
What is Matter? -- Never Mind!
-Homer Simpson
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-29-2012, 12:41 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
I don't, but I also don't know that they weren't clean, and I don't advocate punishment just because they played in the same era as Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, etc.
So then are you an advocate of Clemens getting in then? After all, he has never been definitely proven to have used steroids before.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-29-2012, 02:32 PM
geofitz's Avatar
geofitz geofitz is offline
2013 Preseason Prediction Contest Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Boca Raton, FL.
Posts: 139
Default

Special Room. Sounds great. But would it resemble a locker room, laboratory or court room? Seriously what happens to these former players will greatly impact the future of the HOF.
__________________
2011 WSI H2H2 Keeper League Champ (So Fla Sun Sox)
2011 WSI Football League Champ (Barefoot Mailman)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.