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  #1  
Old 02-04-2013, 10:35 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Default Hawk On Firing LaRussa...

Interesting story. Big mistake by Hawk there... almost as big as trying to make Fisk a left fielder for "can't miss" prospect, Joel Skinner

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/sox-d...iring-la-russa

Lip
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  #2  
Old 02-05-2013, 12:12 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Hawk's actual accomplishments in baseball come nowhere near his self-promoted perceived accomplishments.
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  #3  
Old 02-05-2013, 10:07 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Hawk's actual accomplishments in baseball come nowhere near his self-promoted perceived accomplishments.
And even those don't compare to the accomplishments of guess who?

YAZ!
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  #4  
Old 02-05-2013, 11:45 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Another one of the biggest "what if's" in Sox history.

Courtesy of my interview with Jack McDowell:

ML: I’m not trying to place blame here but the Sox as good as they were, always seemed to be one piece short. Whether it was another starter or another big bat to go with Thomas and Ventura. Do you think the organization did everything they could to get to a World Series?

JM: "That’s tough to say. I know that Mark McGwire wanted to come here. He called me three times in about a ten day period after the 1991 season. He asked me about the other guys in the clubhouse, about the coaching staff and about the city of Chicago. I honestly felt we were going to get him. I called Robin (Ventura) to let him know what was going on and I remember he was excited. He told me ‘alright...we’re going to kick ass.’ The Sox then asked Frank (Thomas) if he’d go to DH full time so that Mark could play first and he said no.".

Lip
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2013, 11:24 AM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Another one of the biggest "what if's" in Sox history.

Courtesy of my interview with Jack McDowell:

ML: I’m not trying to place blame here but the Sox as good as they were, always seemed to be one piece short. Whether it was another starter or another big bat to go with Thomas and Ventura. Do you think the organization did everything they could to get to a World Series?

JM: "That’s tough to say. I know that Mark McGwire wanted to come here. He called me three times in about a ten day period after the 1991 season. He asked me about the other guys in the clubhouse, about the coaching staff and about the city of Chicago. I honestly felt we were going to get him. I called Robin (Ventura) to let him know what was going on and I remember he was excited. He told me ‘alright...we’re going to kick ass.’ The Sox then asked Frank (Thomas) if he’d go to DH full time so that Mark could play first and he said no.".

Lip
I'm glad that didn't happen. I don't think McGwire would have put the Sox over the top. He didn't hit for average: he didn't draw walks. And given Frank's difficulties while being used as a DH, it's possible McGwire's presence would have prevented Thomas from becoming the player that we remember.
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2013, 11:29 AM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
And even those don't compare to the accomplishments of guess who?

YAZ!
what about Ted Williams?
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2013, 12:29 PM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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what about Ted Williams?
I never saw Ted Williams play, but he did have a lifetime 1.116 OPS over 19 seasons despite missing 3 prime years being a war hero. Putting that into a little perspective, Frank Thomas as great as he was, only put up an OPS that high one season. So if Hawk wants to share a little wisdom from him, I think it is worthwhile to hear.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-2013, 02:00 PM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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I never saw Ted Williams play, but he did have a lifetime 1.116 OPS over 19 seasons despite missing 3 prime years being a war hero. Putting that into a little perspective, Frank Thomas as great as he was, only put up an OPS that high one season. So if Hawk wants to share a little wisdom from him, I think it is worthwhile to hear.
Yeah, I know he was one of the elite players ever. I just said that because half of Hawks stories start with how he was taking to Ted Williams. Yaz was about 40 when I saw him play, but he played a heck of a long time and did win the triple crown .
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:38 AM
DrCrawdad DrCrawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Interesting story. Big mistake by Hawk there... almost as big as trying to make Fisk a left fielder for "can't miss" prospect, Joel Skinner

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/sox-d...iring-la-russa

Lip
I walked away from that article wondering, what was the Lisle restaurant that Hawk and Tony met at.
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:44 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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I walked away from that article wondering, what was the Lisle restaurant that Hawk and Tony met at.
I'm trying to figure out which golf course Hawk scheduled this meeting near so he could get a round in before deciding to fire LaRussa. My original theory was Seven Bridges, but I don't think it was built until the early 90's.
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2013, 09:40 PM
doogiec doogiec is offline
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I'm trying to figure out which golf course Hawk scheduled this meeting near so he could get a round in before deciding to fire LaRussa. My original theory was Seven Bridges, but I don't think it was built until the early 90's.
I'm betting that he shot a round at the old Woodridge golf course (which was approximately where Seven Bridges is now) and then took the five minute drive up 53 to Del Debbios on Ogden to fire LaRussa. Del Debbios seems like it would have been a good place to fire a future Hall of Fame manager. Pretty good food, reasonable prices, and kind of dark and quiet inside.
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2013, 03:40 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Interesting story. Big mistake by Hawk there... almost as big as trying to make Fisk a left fielder for "can't miss" prospect, Joel Skinner

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/sox-drawer/hawk-opens-firing-la-russa

Lip
I don't think anyone ever considered Joel Skinner a can't-miss prospect. He was a 37th-round draft pick from the Pirates system and never hit consistently in the minors before never hitting consistently in the majors, although he was regarded as a pretty good defensive catcher. Ron Karkovice, who came up late in the 1986 season, was the first-round pick who seemed to be developing into a solid hitter.

I recall reading that Harrelson said the idea of moving Fisk to left was to extend his career, not to find a place for Skinner to play every day or that the Sox needed to make room for Karkovice. In fact, Skinner was traded midway through the 1986 season. I don't think the White Sox really looked at catchers as being key to the offense between Fisk and Pierzynski.
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2013, 06:27 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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I recall reading that Harrelson said the idea of moving Fisk to left was to extend his career...
I don't remember that quote (I was 9 in early 1986), but if true I completely understand that thinking (even if I don't necessarily agree with it). Fisk led the league in homers in 85 while still hitting for a decent average. Of course it made sense from that perspective to find a way to keep his bat in the lineup, to reduce his risk of injury, and to extend his career.
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:14 AM
dickallen15 dickallen15 is offline
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I read an article that stated that Hawk wasn't as bad as a lot of people want to believe. He did get Calderon for next to nothing and he turned into Raines. He got Bonilla as a rule 5, was ripped for trading him for DeLeon, but DeLeon turned into One Dog,and if Bonilla stayed, the Sox might have won a few more games over the years, not enough to win, but enough to keep them from being able to draft guys like McDowell and Thomas. So why it is fashionable on this site to criticize Hawk for everything he does, his "disasterous" stint as a GM, really wasn't so bad. He did inherit a disaster. Britt Burns and Tom Seaver were done, and the minor league system was worse than it is now.
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2013, 08:31 AM
WisSoxFan WisSoxFan is offline
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I learned Hawk has been in baseball for part of seven decades. First I've heard of that.
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