White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
Congratulations on winning the AL ROTY award unanimously, Jose!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-25-2013, 03:08 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: S.S. Chicago
Posts: 142
Default White Sox Platoon Options (LEFT FIELD is very interesting)

Getting more from a position by utilizing 2 average, low cost players and combining the two into a potential all-star, 10M/year production.


C- Flowers .269/.309/.596 v LHP, Gimenez v. RHP .283/.383/.423

LF- Viciedo- .350/.391/.642 vs LHP, .225/.271/.380 vs RHP

Starting at catcher, it's obvious Flower is the everyday catcher, but he's clearly much stronger against LHP. Gimenez should/may see more playing time than we think this year against RHP.


Viciedo had 43 hits vs LHP w/ 18 of them going for extra base hits. He also K'd just 18 times while walking 9 times as opposed to his 5:1 K/BB against RHP......People will argue that he hit 25HR, understandable. Yet, if we played Dwayne Wise vs all RHP and Viciedo vs all LHP here's the production we would have got from a 3M left field.

Adjusted for 600 ABs (and weighing the fact of more RHP than LHP) aka Wise will get more ABs

.297/.357/.511 33HR, 97RBI, 40 doubles 20SB......

What's the going rate for a .300/30/20/100 LF (see Ryan Braun)
Also gives the Sox an above average defensive LF
__________________
"C'mon Timo!"
World series Champs 99-63 (11-1) GO GO White Sox
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-25-2013, 03:10 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 18,277
Default

Is this a serious argument for platooning (1) anyone with Dayan Viciedo, and (2) Dewayne ****ing Wise, of all people?
__________________
Ridiculousness across all sports:

(1) "You have no valid opinion because you never played the game."
(2) "Stats are irrelevant. This guy just doesn't know how to win."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-25-2013, 03:13 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,244
Blog Entries: 5
Default

No spank you
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-25-2013, 03:16 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: S.S. Chicago
Posts: 142
Default

Yah, clear improvement of production should be ignored
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-25-2013, 03:21 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,166
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
Yah, clear improvement of production should be ignored
You haven't demonstrated any evidence Wise would be able to put up those kind of numbers over 110-120 starts the LH hitting half of the platoon would get. Probably would work on Playstation, though.
__________________
A bad idea is better than no idea at all- Hawk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-25-2013, 03:23 PM
doublem23's Avatar
doublem23 doublem23 is offline
MMXXIII
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Roscoe Village
Posts: 54,244
Blog Entries: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
Yah, clear improvement of production should be ignored
I hate to break it to you, but the Sox aren't going to win **** this year, so the focus should be on long-term player development. Viciedo's growth as a full-time player should not be stunted so Dewayne ****ing Wise can get on the field a little more.

You're also basing your argument for Dewayne based on 1 year of splits, a career anomaly for a 30+ year old journeyman AAAA player. Here's his career body of work vs. RHP starters:

.255/.283/.412

**** that noise.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-25-2013, 03:35 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: S.S. Chicago
Posts: 142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
I hate to break it to you, but the Sox aren't going to win **** this year, so the focus should be on long-term player development. Viciedo's growth as a full-time player should not be stunted so Dewayne ****ing Wise can get on the field a little more.

You're also basing your argument for Dewayne based on 1 year of splits, a career anomaly for a 30+ year old journeyman AAAA player. Here's his career body of work vs. RHP starters:

.255/.283/.412

**** that noise.
Even using his career #s which you often use 3 most recent years in SABR but ill use your # you are still getting .291/.342/.499 LOL

I can't accept a .300 OB% player let alone 3 of them.....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-25-2013, 04:04 PM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Palos Park
Posts: 1,713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
Getting more from a position by utilizing 2 average, low cost players and combining the two into a potential all-star, 10M/year production.


C- Flowers .269/.309/.596 v LHP, Gimenez v. RHP .283/.383/.423

LF- Viciedo- .350/.391/.642 vs LHP, .225/.271/.380 vs RHP

Starting at catcher, it's obvious Flower is the everyday catcher, but he's clearly much stronger against LHP. Gimenez should/may see more playing time than we think this year against RHP.


Viciedo had 43 hits vs LHP w/ 18 of them going for extra base hits. He also K'd just 18 times while walking 9 times as opposed to his 5:1 K/BB against RHP......People will argue that he hit 25HR, understandable. Yet, if we played Dwayne Wise vs all RHP and Viciedo vs all LHP here's the production we would have got from a 3M left field.

Adjusted for 600 ABs (and weighing the fact of more RHP than LHP) aka Wise will get more ABs

.297/.357/.511 33HR, 97RBI, 40 doubles 20SB......

What's the going rate for a .300/30/20/100 LF (see Ryan Braun)
Also gives the Sox an above average defensive LF
I don't know where you are getting those numbers for Gimenez but he is a 30 year old catcher who has played what, 15 games in the Majors? Do you really expect this kind of production? If he were capable of posting a .383 OBP in the Majors wouldn't you think he would be playing consistently by now?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-25-2013, 10:39 PM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 897
Default

Jim Thome was 23 in 1994. At the end of the season he had 796 PA. That season he hit .167/.247/.298 in 94 PA against LHP. I suppose he should have been put into a platoon for the rest of his career, too?

He hit .275/.380/.422 against them in '95.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2013, 09:11 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,753
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MISoxfan View Post
Jim Thome was 23 in 1994. At the end of the season he had 796 PA. That season he hit .167/.247/.298 in 94 PA against LHP. I suppose he should have been put into a platoon for the rest of his career, too?

He hit .275/.380/.422 against them in '95.
Let's not start this argument again. There's no telling what Viciedo will do this year. As a realist, I'm expecting a slight improvement.

My only real concern is if Hahn is penciling such a flawed and increasingly expensive hitter into the 1B/cleanup spot after Paulie leaves, as that would be a huge step down.

Much more concerned about going into the season with 2 rookie catchers than anything Viciedo does at this stage of his career.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-26-2013, 12:31 PM
blandman blandman is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Let's not start this argument again. There's no telling what Viciedo will do this year. As a realist, I'm expecting a slight improvement.

My only real concern is if Hahn is penciling such a flawed and increasingly expensive hitter into the 1B/cleanup spot after Paulie leaves, as that would be a huge step down.

Much more concerned about going into the season with 2 rookie catchers than anything Viciedo does at this stage of his career.
As a realist, I'm expecting a player with his approach to show regression.

You can't say "let's not start this argument again" and then say something that you know a lot of people vehemently disagree with.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-26-2013, 12:56 PM
TheOldRoman TheOldRoman is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,832
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
As a realist, I'm expecting a player with his approach to show regression.

You can't say "let's not start this argument again" and then say something that you know a lot of people vehemently disagree with.
Munch. You are not a realist in any sense of the word. You are a sensationalist at very best. You have a well displayed agenda against the White Sox and really want people to believe that literally everything will go wrong with them. You pushed your agenda to the point of making up quotes to support your "fact" that Danks would miss at least one month, hours after you were proven wrong when you said he hadn't even thrown yet.

And no, even for the people who are not high on Viciedo, there is not "a lot" of people who vehemently disagree with the premise that he will have at least a slight improvement. Calling for a regression for a 23 year old after his first full big league season might be a new low for you.
__________________
In Kenny We Trust 7/31/05
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-26-2013, 04:13 PM
MISoxfan MISoxfan is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 897
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Let's not start this argument again. There's no telling what Viciedo will do this year. As a realist, I'm expecting a slight improvement.

My only real concern is if Hahn is penciling such a flawed and increasingly expensive hitter into the 1B/cleanup spot after Paulie leaves, as that would be a huge step down.

Much more concerned about going into the season with 2 rookie catchers than anything Viciedo does at this stage of his career.
I'm not saying Viciedo is the next Jim Thome. I imagine he will hit righties better next year, but he also won't hit .350/.391/.642 off of lefties again.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-26-2013, 04:28 PM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: "Downstate" Illinois
Posts: 3,810
Default

This whole thread reminds me of the heady days when people were advocating trading Paulie so they could let Ross Gload or Brian Daubach play first base.
__________________
"I told you I'd give my left nut to help this team." Paul Konerko
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-26-2013, 05:03 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
WSI Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Evanston
Posts: 29,010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
This whole thread reminds me of the heady days when people were advocating trading Paulie so they could let Ross Gload or Brian Daubach play first base.
GIDPK!
__________________
Attendance records:
09 : 3-2.
10 : 2-3.
11: 0-1.
12: 2-1.
14: 2-3.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 AM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.