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  #1  
Old 06-30-2013, 05:26 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Default More of this crap

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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
And only 123 pitches for Sale....way to go Ventura. Pitch his arm out so we can win 65 games.
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Saving the bullpen for the stretch drive.


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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
I don't have a problem with a 123 pitches. A hundred twelve years of major league baseball history doesn't support the claim limiting a pitcher to a hundred pitchers preserves his arm or limits the risk of injury in the long run.
You realize there's also 112 years of guys getting seriously hurt, right? You realize that in 112 years, all the guys throwing as many pitches as Sale with the same form ended up with exploded elbows or shoulders, right?

If there's a case to be made for Sale to have high pitch counts and innings, it's certainly not based on 112 years of history.
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  #2  
Old 06-30-2013, 05:52 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
You realize there's also 112 years of guys getting seriously hurt, right? You realize that in 112 years, all the guys throwing as many pitches as Sale with the same form ended up with exploded elbows or shoulders, right?

If there's a case to be made for Sale to have high pitch counts and innings, it's certainly not based on 112 years of history.
All? Really? I would never say Sale will last another 15 years without a major injury. I'm not Cleo and lots of pitchers without the dreaded inverted W blow their arms out too. Pitchers just seem so fragile nowadays regardless of how they throw.
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  #3  
Old 06-30-2013, 06:17 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post




You realize there's also 112 years of guys getting seriously hurt, right? You realize that in 112 years, all the guys throwing as many pitches as Sale with the same form ended up with exploded elbows or shoulders, right?

If there's a case to be made for Sale to have high pitch counts and innings, it's certainly not based on 112 years of history.
Take your crusade elsewhere. Your absolutist statements are stale.
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  #4  
Old 06-30-2013, 06:28 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post




You realize there's also 112 years of guys getting seriously hurt, right? You realize that in 112 years, all the guys throwing as many pitches as Sale with the same form ended up with exploded elbows or shoulders, right?

If there's a case to be made for Sale to have high pitch counts and innings, it's certainly not based on 112 years of history.
Facts are facts. As pitch count restrictions have increased, so have arm injuries to pitchers. Unless you are arguing we are in the midst of a process human devolution, I don't know how you can claim there is no correlation. And how does it just so happen a nice round number like 100 becomes a magic number where that's acceptable but not 120 pitches. If we were using the duodecimal system instead of the decimal system, people would probably praising Ventura for keeping him under pitch count right now.
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  #5  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:17 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
All? Really? I would never say Sale will last another 15 years without a major injury. I'm not Cleo and lots of pitchers without the dreaded inverted W blow their arms out too. Pitchers just seem so fragile nowadays regardless of how they throw.
Yep. All of them.

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Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
Take your crusade elsewhere. Your absolutist statements are stale.
Or, you know, you could educate yourself. Because it's true.

There hasn't been a single 10+ year career in the last 112 years of baseball where a starting pitcher threw with a true inverted W without serious and career threatening (or ending) incident. Not a single case.

And someone will look it up and come up with names like Glavine, Smoltz, Blylevin, etc. But none of those guys threw a true inverted W. In a true inverted W, the elbow can (and does frequently) raise about the shoulder. That's what causes catastrophic injury. At a 100% rate. Absolute. 100%.

In case you were wondering, it's still 100%.

Did you look it up yet? 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Facts are facts. As pitch count restrictions have increased, so have arm injuries to pitchers. Unless you are arguing we are in the midst of a process human devolution, I don't know how you can claim there is no correlation. And how does it just so happen a nice round number like 100 becomes a magic number where that's acceptable but not 120 pitches. If we were using the duodecimal system instead of the decimal system, people would probably praising Ventura for keeping him under pitch count right now.
I'm not knocking the argument that pitch counts are to blame in a lot of cases, I believe that to be true. My issue is with the way Sale pitches. It's 100% a ticking time bomb. It's not a matter or if, it's a matter of when. And the more pitches he throws, the sooner when is.
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  #6  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:37 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Yep. All of them.



Or, you know, you could educate yourself. Because it's true.

There hasn't been a single 10+ year career in the last 112 years of baseball where a starting pitcher threw with a true inverted W without serious and career threatening (or ending) incident. Not a single case.

And someone will look it up and come up with names like Glavine, Smoltz, Blylevin, etc. But none of those guys threw a true inverted W. In a true inverted W, the elbow can (and does frequently) raise about the shoulder. That's what causes catastrophic injury. At a 100% rate. Absolute. 100%.

In case you were wondering, it's still 100%.

Did you look it up yet? 100%.



I'm not knocking the argument that pitch counts are to blame in a lot of cases, I believe that to be true. My issue is with the way Sale pitches. It's 100% a ticking time bomb. It's not a matter or if, it's a matter of when. And the more pitches he throws, the sooner when is.
Here's why people don't take you more seriously.

I want to take you seriously. I really do. But when you pull this shtick, it is like talking to the guy who claims the moon landing was faked.
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:42 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
Here's why people don't take you more seriously.

I want to take you seriously. I really do. But when you pull this shtick, it is like talking to the guy who claims the moon landing was faked.
Do you have an actual counter to his claim?
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2013, 11:55 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Do you have an actual counter to his claim?
I've got better things to do but feel free to jump on that bandwagon.
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  #9  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:10 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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If you get the right offer, you do it.

If you get close to the right offer, you do what it takes to get the right offer.

Dude is a ticking time bomb and the longer you wait the more likely it is you get nothing out of him. We aren't going to be good again during the duration of his contract.
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  #10  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:13 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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We aren't going to be good again during the duration of his contract.
I can't believe it, you are growing even more pessimistic. A few days ago you thought it would take five years to turn the team around, now we won't even have a shot until 2020!
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:21 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I can't believe it, you are growing even more pessimistic. A few days ago you thought it would take five years to turn the team around, now we won't even have a shot until 2020!
My bad, I didn't think he was signed that long for some reason.
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  #12  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:13 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
If you get the right offer, you do it.

If you get close to the right offer, you do what it takes to get the right offer.

Dude is a ticking time bomb and the longer you wait the more likely it is you get nothing out of him. We aren't going to be good again during the duration of his contract.
I am tired of having every thread hijacked with this quasi-science, you're more than welcome to play doctor/scout/whatever you want in here.
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  #13  
Old 07-02-2013, 03:20 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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I am tired of having every thread hijacked with this quasi-science, you're more than welcome to play doctor/scout/whatever you want in here.
Give me a ****ing break. The thread was about whether we should trade Sale. Your vendetta against me is getting embarrassing.

I've been nothing but willing to discuss and have posted several links to show why I've come to my conclusions. If you don't agree with me, that's your business. But as I said, your inability to accept my point of view as a valid point of view after all that I've done to back it up is incredibly embarrassing, IMHO. You're trying to censor my point of view into a single thread in an attempt to invalidate it, because you can't do so with facts. How very sad and petty.

Last edited by blandman; 07-02-2013 at 03:26 PM.
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2013, 05:17 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Give me a ****ing break. The thread was about whether we should trade Sale. Your vendetta against me is getting embarrassing.

I've been nothing but willing to discuss and have posted several links to show why I've come to my conclusions. If you don't agree with me, that's your business. But as I said, your inability to accept my point of view as a valid point of view after all that I've done to back it up is incredibly embarrassing, IMHO. You're trying to censor my point of view into a single thread in an attempt to invalidate it, because you can't do so with facts. How very sad and petty.
It's not in the roadhouse... yet... if you want it to end up there, keep it up.

The fact is this "analysis" is only a rumor because Sale is healthy and pitching well. Thus it belongs in the rumor section.

In addition, since it's a highly volatile POV it is at our discretion to whether to leave it in the Clubhouse and allow you to dominate the discussion as it devolves into a flamewar over and over again.

This is the thread. If you persist in posting this repeatedly in other threads more steps will be taken.

I'd have preferred to have this discussion in private but since you wanted it public, here is the official response.
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