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  #61  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:56 PM
RadioheadRocks RadioheadRocks is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
JB:

...And yes absolutely, historically the Sox have squandered chance after chance to take control of the city. Sometimes it has been forces out of their control (social unrest in the 1960's) but more often it's because they shot themselves (leaving WGN after 1967, SportsVision, not even making the playoffs the year after the World Series because they fell apart in the second half...blowing playoff chances the final two weeks in 2003, falling apart after Buehrle's perfect game in 2009, falling apart the final month and a half in 2010 and potentially throwing away a three game lead with 15 to go in 2012.)

That's NOT the way to excite the fan base, garner more media coverage or make sponsors more willing in this economy to invest and advertise.

Lip
Let's also add the mindset of the 1997 "White Flag trade". The way things are turning out this year, can you even imagine the Detroit Tigers front office saying a few weeks ago: "Anyone who thinks we can catch the White Sox is crazy"???
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  #62  
Old 09-29-2012, 11:06 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
It's been downhill ever since. Probably around one million total drop from the end of 2006 through the final home game tomorrow. About 2.9 million to 1.9 million.

Not good.

Lip
Brooks has been on cruise-control since 2006.

I've also always contended that the clown broadcast teams have done nothing but hurt trying to sell the product.
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  #63  
Old 09-29-2012, 11:55 PM
Wedema Wedema is offline
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Lip: I would ask Rich Lindberg what his defintion of a great White Sox fan is. I've met Lindberg a number of times. I even contributed some of my White Sox items that he put into one of his White Sox books. He questions how great White Sox fans are but to the best of my knowledge he's not a season ticket holder and doesn't go to that many White Sox games. Granted he's considered the White Sox historian but he doesn't go to many games. I have to wonder how many of these people who post on WSI are season ticket holders. With all the different packages the White Sox have I would think more people would sign up and become season ticket holders. For the record tomorrow will be my 32nd game I've attended this 2012 season.
I agree, anyone that does not go to games or hasn't been to games in years has no business commenting about the current state of the Sox attendance issues.
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  #64  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:36 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by Wedema View Post
I agree, anyone that does not go to games or hasn't been to games in years has no business commenting about the current state of the Sox attendance issues.
So if you don't live in the Chicago area and/or can't afford to go to many games you're not allowed to criticize the business plan of the White Sox?
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  #65  
Old 09-30-2012, 02:06 AM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
Brooks has been on cruise-control since 2006.

I've also always contended that the clown broadcast teams have done nothing but hurt trying to sell the product.
For my $0.02, I'd start but ****-canning Ed Farmer from the radio broadcast. What a big drop in quality from John Rooney...

SMO
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  #66  
Old 09-30-2012, 02:20 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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For my $0.02, I'd start but ****-canning Ed Farmer from the radio broadcast. What a big drop in quality from John Rooney...

SMO
Farmer was tolerable with Rooney, but whenever I turn in to a game on the radio I have to forget how bad that booth is now and just laugh whenever they get sidetracked and Farmer goes off on one tangent leading into another. As for the TV side, I understand why Hawk is both loved and hated by many; and I don't really fall down on either side of that argument. But Farmer & DJ stand out to me as so much worse than Hawk and Stoney. A casual fan would just have no idea what is going on during a game with Farmer/DJ; and, beyond the casual fan it often takes me awhile to get a score or a count or how many outs there are or anything like that.
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  #67  
Old 09-30-2012, 09:58 AM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Im ny opinion the biggest problem for the Sox as far as attendance is their alarming tendency to choke away first place after the All-Star break. Since 2006, it seems like more years than not they are hovering in contention or in first late in the year and then ....epic fail. This year's was later than most because the Tigers were playing way below their talent level all year. It is now no longer just a thing, it is a trend that keeps happening. With the deplorable economy in most of Illinois , why would a blue collar guy that is on unemployment ,or working a job at lesser pay than he is qualified ,go to see a team in the cool weather that is playing out the string? Nobody believes in these guys because all they do is choke since the magical 2005 run. It has created a sense of fatalism that I believe keeps fans away. This is now 1 brief playoff appearance since 05. Not good enough by a long shot. After 05 now there is expectations, the WS win is over, and now fans are fed up with the gagging when it counts. If this team is making the playoffs somewhat regularly the fans will come no matter what tickets cost, it has been proven everywhere in sports.

Last edited by mahagga73; 09-30-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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  #68  
Old 09-30-2012, 10:11 AM
mahagga73 mahagga73 is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
So if you don't live in the Chicago area and/or can't afford to go to many games you're not allowed to criticize the business plan of the White Sox?
Yep, that's exactly the nonsense he is saying. It's the old "we are better than you because we have season tix mentality".These people think when they sign up for season tix packages they instantly become more qualified to comment since they think they are part of the team now, lol. Seen this mentality a million times.
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  #69  
Old 09-30-2012, 11:07 AM
Wedema Wedema is offline
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Originally Posted by mahagga73 View Post
Yep, that's exactly the nonsense he is saying. It's the old "we are better than you because we have season tix mentality".These people think when they sign up for season tix packages they instantly become more qualified to comment since they think they are part of the team now, lol. Seen this mentality a million times.
"These people" are not more qualified because they are season ticket holders or because they think they are part of the team. What makes you more qualified is that you acutually GO TO THE GAMES whether you are a season ticket holder or not. There have been many discussions on how to go to games for cheap. Take a look at the blog where they guy is approaching 50 games for under $500.
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  #70  
Old 09-30-2012, 12:23 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Wedema:

I'm sorry I can't agree with your comment. Fan loyalty isn't based on the number of times seeing a game in person. Else how do you explain Sox TV ratings up 10% this year over last season.

There is simply, in my opinion, a FUNDAMENTAL DISCONNECT between the Sox marketing / ticket plan(s) and the fan base.

Not saying the Sox method is wrong, they obviously think it's the right thing to do and it very well may be, but the fans don't and that crucial.

There's also no one reason why things are heading south...it's all connected...the team's second half fades since 2003, the economy, ticket prices overall, the dynamic pricing idea...it all plays a part.

Lip
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  #71  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:15 PM
Wedema Wedema is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Wedema:

I'm sorry I can't agree with your comment. Fan loyalty isn't based on the number of times seeing a game in person. Else how do you explain Sox TV ratings up 10% this year over last season.

There is simply, in my opinion, a FUNDAMENTAL DISCONNECT between the Sox marketing / ticket plan(s) and the fan base.

Not saying the Sox method is wrong, they obviously think it's the right thing to do and it very well may be, but the fans don't and that crucial.

There's also no one reason why things are heading south...it's all connected...the team's second half fades since 2003, the economy, ticket prices overall, the dynamic pricing idea...it all plays a part.

Lip
Being at the ballpark almost daily you see the disconnect even more. Today there were a lot of upset fans because there was no autograph signing before the game as there has been anually before the last game of the year. One girl told me that she bought her tickets on Thursday at the box office and asked the ticket rep if there would be a signing and he told her "Weather permitting".
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  #72  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:29 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Wedema:

I'm sorry I can't agree with your comment. Fan loyalty isn't based on the number of times seeing a game in person. Else how do you explain Sox TV ratings up 10% this year over last season.

There is simply, in my opinion, a FUNDAMENTAL DISCONNECT between the Sox marketing / ticket plan(s) and the fan base.

Not saying the Sox method is wrong, they obviously think it's the right thing to do and it very well may be, but the fans don't and that crucial.

There's also no one reason why things are heading south...it's all connected...the team's second half fades since 2003, the economy, ticket prices overall, the dynamic pricing idea...it all plays a part.

Lip
Lip - You've hit on the MAJOR dynamic regarding attendance, and that is the overall economy. Far too many people are out of work, and the one's working are insecure about their employment future. Going to a baseball game, for all but the most rabid, is nothing more than a luxury.

Baseball got themselves into this mess by running their costs up to a point where they now have to sell tickets at premium pricing in order to make their ends meet. Fifty years ago (or even during the Great Depression if you want to look at a comparable economic situation), the cost of going to a baseball game (ticket only) was comparable to going to a movie. Now it's not even close.

That all being said, the single biggest marketing impact a team has is its broadcasts. For years the White Sox have lagged the Cubs in attendance - even with a World Series victory within recent memory. Forget the stupid commercials, a thirty second spot does not compare even remotely to a three hour broadcast. Stone is a pro, but doesn't inspire anybody. Harrelson is about as stale as a month old loaf of bread. I can't fathom how ownership doesn't see this - It's time for a new face and voice of the team. Stone's fine as a color guy, but Harrelson has absolutely got to be put out to pasture.

While the small crowds during the midst of a divisional run are due primarily to a rotten economy, this organization does not help itself by keeping Harrelson front and center.



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  #73  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:31 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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King!

Nice to have you back.

Lip
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  #74  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:31 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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King!

Nice to have you back.

Lip
Thanks.
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  #75  
Old 09-30-2012, 08:39 PM
ChiSoxFann ChiSoxFann is offline
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Originally Posted by Steelrod View Post
Since the current marketing staff came in, the've had 6 consecutive declines in attendance. Maybe the problem lies in the staff.

I agree that Brooks has been on cruise control since 2005 and has turned into another Rob Gallas. Maybe it's time to get some new blood into the marketing dept. to help the problem. Answering a few fan e-mails every now and then is not enough.

I can only hope with no playoffs this year and, most likely, a cut in payroll and lower expectations next season we can finally be done with dynamic pricing.
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