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  #61  
Old 10-15-2012, 10:21 PM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
lol gtfo
LOL, I forgot the goal of baseball is to lose games now.



You want to pretend like the Cubs have to go into a complete tear down to get good again that's fine, but no major market team has ever done so. There's no reason a team with their kind of resources ever needs to lose 100+ games to rebuild. It's ****ing ridiculous.
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  #62  
Old 10-16-2012, 02:36 AM
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Tell that to the flub fans. Most of them think this year was successful, and that they'll definitely turn it around in a few years, so everything is just hunky-dory.
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  #63  
Old 10-16-2012, 08:16 AM
SOXPHILE SOXPHILE is offline
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Originally Posted by cub killer View Post
Tell that to the flub fans. Most of them think this year was successful, and that they'll definitely turn it around in a few years, so everything is just hunky-dory.
I'm never seen a fanbase wear a 100 loss season like a badge of honor like these idiot "fans" have in 2012.

Hooray ! We lost 100 games ! We have the second worst record in baseball, now we can get the #2 draft pick, because we all know that GUARANTEES future championships ! It's just too bad the Astros lost more than us, they get the #1 draft pick ! Boo hoo !
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  #64  
Old 10-16-2012, 08:45 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by SOXPHILE View Post
I'm never seen a fanbase wear a 100 loss season like a badge of honor like these idiot "fans" have in 2012.

Hooray ! We lost 100 games ! We have the second worst record in baseball, now we can get the #2 draft pick, because we all know that GUARANTEES future championships ! It's just too bad the Astros lost more than us, they get the #1 draft pick ! Boo hoo !
Yes, I don't doubt that Theo and his buddies coooooould turn this thing around, but my only point was that in the short-term, they have turned the Cubs from bad to downright miserable. If this is their plan, does anyone see this team being even mildly competitive in the next 2-3 seasons? I can't fathom how they would be.
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  #65  
Old 10-16-2012, 01:25 PM
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I know there are differences between the two teams, but one thing I keep thinking about is:
2003: Detroit Tigers 43-119.
2006: Detroit Tigers 95-67, AL pennant winners.
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  #66  
Old 10-16-2012, 04:32 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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I think Theo is doing it right from the business perspective.

Most teams would need to spend 80-100 mil to be close to .500 during a rebuild in order to draw fans. However, as long as the cubs keep the "experience" high, they will still draw close to 3 million fans.

The difference in those 250k fans is probably less than the difference of a gutted payroll, ESPECIALLY if they can move high priced players like Soriano.

While there is no such thing as a sure thing, we can't argue it both ways. The excuse for a pathetic White Sox farm system has always been "Because we always finish about .500, we do not get premium picks". Well okay, the Cubs are playing for Premium picks, fine.

But because of the size of their fan base and the location of their ball park, the Cubs are going to keep turning a good profit, be able to save up their resources and attack foriegn scouting while selecting top level prospects in the draft. When they are ready to spend, they will have some extra money saved up.

It would never work for the White Sox because they would only draw 5,000 people to the game. But the Cubs are the Cubs and they will be fine doing it this way.

If it will work, no one knows, but they won't be in a bad position because of it.

They also have a smart marketing department. They are lowing non-premium seats in the ball park and have consistently pushed the message of "we are new, be patient with us, we will build this up right". Loyal fans ARE going to buy into that.

I think its pretty telling the Cubs are marketing a complete tear down better than the White Sox are marketing are near division championship. I hope Brooks is ashamed of the job he did this year.
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  #67  
Old 10-16-2012, 06:37 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I think its pretty telling the Cubs are marketing a complete tear down better than the White Sox are marketing are near division championship. I hope Brooks is ashamed of the job he did this year.
The White Sox couldn't market a 162-0 season with Superman hitting cleanup.
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  #68  
Old 10-16-2012, 06:56 PM
pearso66 pearso66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
I know there are differences between the two teams, but one thing I keep thinking about is:
2003: Detroit Tigers 43-119.
2006: Detroit Tigers 95-67, AL pennant winners.
To be fair, didn't they spend a TON of money to get to that point? I know they had a few homegrown players, but they weren't necessarily rebuilding the way the Cubs are pushing that they are.
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  #69  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:00 PM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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I'm starting to convince myself that the Cubs teardown approach has the beneficial side effect of making them a ****load of money for a few years while they still draw the blue sheep to the Wrigley experience and trade off as much of the high-priced bad paper as they can while trotting out a team largely earning the MLB minimum wage.

Even with a surge in disgruntled "fans" unhappy with the lack of immediate results on this 3-4 year process, they will still draw 2.5 - 2.8 million. I did hear just today that they will be reducing prices on SOME tickets for the 2013 campaign, but they are also looking to add some more prime real estate seats by moving the wall behind home plate a little closer to the field.

SMO
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  #70  
Old 10-16-2012, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillMissOzzie View Post
...they are also looking to add some more prime real estate seats by moving the wall behind home plate a little closer to the field.

SMO
Thus making themselves even more unattractive to any free agent pitchers. Less foul ground makes it even more of a hitters' park.
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  #71  
Old 10-17-2012, 09:29 AM
DeadMoney DeadMoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
Thus making themselves even more unattractive to any free agent pitchers. Less foul ground makes it even more of a hitters' park.
While I agree that Wrigley is a terrible place to pitch with day games, with the wind blowing out, and with a lack of foul ground, it's a tad gullible to think that most Major League players (and agents) won't take the maximum years and money that they can get.
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  #72  
Old 10-17-2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DeadMoney View Post
While I agree that Wrigley is a terrible place to pitch with day games, with the wind blowing out, and with a lack of foul ground, it's a tad gullible to think that most Major League players (and agents) won't take the maximum years and money that they can get.
If they see it as possibly their last contract, sure. But, if they worry that their stats will suffer and hurt their next contract, they'll consider taking a little less to play somewhere better suited to them.
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  #73  
Old 10-29-2012, 01:12 AM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
I think Theo is doing it right from the business perspective.

Most teams would need to spend 80-100 mil to be close to .500 during a rebuild in order to draw fans. However, as long as the cubs keep the "experience" high, they will still draw close to 3 million fans.

The difference in those 250k fans is probably less than the difference of a gutted payroll, ESPECIALLY if they can move high priced players like Soriano.

While there is no such thing as a sure thing, we can't argue it both ways. The excuse for a pathetic White Sox farm system has always been "Because we always finish about .500, we do not get premium picks". Well okay, the Cubs are playing for Premium picks, fine.

But because of the size of their fan base and the location of their ball park, the Cubs are going to keep turning a good profit, be able to save up their resources and attack foriegn scouting while selecting top level prospects in the draft. When they are ready to spend, they will have some extra money saved up.

It would never work for the White Sox because they would only draw 5,000 people to the game. But the Cubs are the Cubs and they will be fine doing it this way.

If it will work, no one knows, but they won't be in a bad position because of it.

They also have a smart marketing department. They are lowing non-premium seats in the ball park and have consistently pushed the message of "we are new, be patient with us, we will build this up right". Loyal fans ARE going to buy into that.

I think its pretty telling the Cubs are marketing a complete tear down better than the White Sox are marketing are near division championship. I hope Brooks is ashamed of the job he did this year.
I think my highlighted quote is the key in their approach. Whether it works for them is unknown, but I think they want to pay down debts and refinance, as if they are in bankruptcy. They know that the park will still generate revenue, and people are still watching on television. They can afford to take this risk, even if it seems extravagant. At least they have a plan.

I'm not sure what the White Sox plan is at the moment.
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  #74  
Old 10-29-2012, 06:32 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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I personally don't care what the Cubs do anymore. They can't erase history like a 104-year period with a World Series win and an almost 70-year span on not even appearing in a Series. So their rebuilding effort is boring. So what if they finally win, say,in 2017? After that, they will start another 100-year losing streak.
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  #75  
Old 10-29-2012, 08:22 AM
cws05champ cws05champ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
Surely this move will put the Cubs over the top?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...,2950323.story

Good thing I'm available!!
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