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  #1  
Old 11-30-2012, 04:40 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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Default You see the trend, what to do with Sale, quickly, as in now.

I say we attempt to lock him up quick.

Maybe something along the lines of
2013-900K, 24
2014-1.1M, 25
2015-5.5M, 26
2016-8.5M, 27
2017-10.5M, 28
2018-10.5M, 29
2019-10.5M, 30
2020-10.5M, 31

Assuming he stays healthy/competitive, it would be hard to decline this deal as a 23year old, IMO......Also if he doesn't get extended and hits the market around 26-27yrs old he's going to be looking at Hamels dollars........Look at the Kershaw financial options. Considering Floyd is making 9.5M it makes it a nice deal.

8yr/58M Similar to the Strasburg deal he signed out of college.

This put him past arbitration, which he would (assuming) be awarded pretty solid salary (LHP, eats IP, K's, competitive)

What would/should the Sox do with Sale?
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2012, 04:59 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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What they should do is give him one or two more years. If he can keep this up, then lock him up to a good deal.
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:01 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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but remember as he gets better, the price tag goes up.

I think now is the time. maybe get the last few years as club options with a buyout.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:27 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
but remember as he gets better, the price tag goes up.

I think now is the time. maybe get the last few years as club options with a buyout.
That delivery still scares me. I wouldn't lock him up to any kind of longterm deal until he could prove that he could stay healthy. One year as a starter is not enough for me.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:59 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
I say we attempt to lock him up quick.

Maybe something along the lines of
2013-900K, 24
2014-1.1M, 25
2015-5.5M, 26
2016-8.5M, 27
2017-10.5M, 28
2018-10.5M, 29
2019-10.5M, 30
2020-10.5M, 31

Assuming he stays healthy/competitive, it would be hard to decline this deal as a 23year old, IMO......Also if he doesn't get extended and hits the market around 26-27yrs old he's going to be looking at Hamels dollars........Look at the Kershaw financial options. Considering Floyd is making 9.5M it makes it a nice deal.

8yr/58M Similar to the Strasburg deal he signed out of college.

This put him past arbitration, which he would (assuming) be awarded pretty solid salary (LHP, eats IP, K's, competitive)

What would/should the Sox do with Sale?
No way. Sale's elbow is an accident waiting to happen. Go year to year until you don't have to anymore getting as much as you can get out of him.
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2012, 06:37 PM
WLL1855 WLL1855 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
No way. Sale's elbow is an accident waiting to happen. Go year to year until you don't have to anymore getting as much as you can get out of him.
When did we get a sports medicine professional on staff here? Dr. James Andrews is that you?

I'm not shocked this kind of crap keeps reappearing though. Didn't someone a while back advocate Sale getting Tommy John surgery before any problems even appear with his throwing arm?

Work out a deal with the guy through his arbitration years. At least. Sneak in an option year or two if you can with a fair buyout.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2012, 07:27 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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When did we get a sports medicine professional on staff here? Dr. James Andrews is that you?

I'm not shocked this kind of crap keeps reappearing though. Didn't someone a while back advocate Sale getting Tommy John surgery before any problems even appear with his throwing arm?

Work out a deal with the guy through his arbitration years. At least. Sneak in an option year or two if you can with a fair buyout.
They're not my words, they're the words being repeated over and over by multiple scouts. You don't have to believe them, but those people are paid for their opinion.
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2012, 07:39 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WLL1855 View Post
When did we get a sports medicine professional on staff here? Dr. James Andrews is that you?

I'm not shocked this kind of crap keeps reappearing though. Didn't someone a while back advocate Sale getting Tommy John surgery before any problems even appear with his throwing arm?

Work out a deal with the guy through his arbitration years. At least. Sneak in an option year or two if you can with a fair buyout.
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They're not my words, they're the words being repeated over and over by multiple scouts. You don't have to believe them, but those people are paid for their opinion.
Come on, this time last year all the way until the 2012 season ended, Peavy and Sale were the China Dolls of the pitching staff who were 100% destined for the 60-Day DL per the experts at WSI.


Oh, of the five guys who who were in the starting rotation on Opening Day 2012, the only ones who never saw the DL during the season were.......Sale and Peavy.
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:42 PM
kevingrt kevingrt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
I say we attempt to lock him up quick.

Maybe something along the lines of
2013-900K, 24
2014-1.1M, 25
2015-5.5M, 26
2016-8.5M, 27
2017-10.5M, 28
2018-10.5M, 29
2019-10.5M, 30
2020-10.5M, 31

Assuming he stays healthy/competitive, it would be hard to decline this deal as a 23year old, IMO......Also if he doesn't get extended and hits the market around 26-27yrs old he's going to be looking at Hamels dollars........Look at the Kershaw financial options. Considering Floyd is making 9.5M it makes it a nice deal.

8yr/58M Similar to the Strasburg deal he signed out of college.

This put him past arbitration, which he would (assuming) be awarded pretty solid salary (LHP, eats IP, K's, competitive)

What would/should the Sox do with Sale?
I completely agree with you. Let's face it you have to make risks in baseball with all money being guaranteed. This I feel is a worthy risk. Even if he has Tommy John guys have been coming back fairly fine 12-14 months after Tommy John. I totally believe this is a risk willing to take rather then waiting two years, watching Sale continue to be a top 5-10 pitcher in the league and then get some crazy money offer Reinsdorf and the Sox cannot match.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:00 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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IMO, the whole mechanics causing injury thing is absolute BS. Some guys have an arm that can hold up, despite mechanics, and some don't. I think it's more about a pitcher's body having the natural ability to withstand the pitching motion than anything else. It's just a crapshoot.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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  #11  
Old 12-01-2012, 12:26 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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MLB Network super imposed Sale's delivery over Randy Johnson's and they were almost exactly the same and Randy Johnson didn't have many arm problems until later in his career. Having said that, I would like Sale to pitch another full season before giving him some sort of major contract extension.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2012, 01:26 AM
Falstaff Falstaff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
IMO, the whole mechanics causing injury thing is absolute BS. Some guys have an arm that can hold up, despite mechanics, and some don't. I think it's more about a pitcher's body having the natural ability to withstand the pitching motion than anything else. It's just a crapshoot.
True. Also true is over time, (starting in 2013?) Sale's velocity will decline.
Rather than the 97mph 15 KO blazer, he'll be routinely working in the 90-93 range. Now, this is pretty standard. A good comparison would be Tim Lincecum, a lanky guy with funky delivery. I bet at this point SF is grateful they didn't commit to 8 years with their Cy Young honoree. I expect a similar trajectory for Sale. UNLESS he starts to develop command of his off-speedo junk a la Freddie Garcia. Chris Sale will not be a lights out performer for an extended time, but I think he has the talent to transform into a finesser as time goes with the wind. My 2 cents.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2012, 02:48 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevingrt View Post

I completely agree with you. Let's face it you have to make risks in baseball with all money being guaranteed. This I feel is a worthy risk. Even if he has Tommy John guys have been coming back fairly fine 12-14 months after Tommy John. I totally believe this is a risk willing to take rather then waiting two years, watching Sale continue to be a top 5-10 pitcher in the league and then get some crazy money offer Reinsdorf and the Sox cannot match.
Actually, guys tend to come back stronger after Tommy John, which is why a lot of pitchers overwork in the minors and get it over with early.

Pitching is not a natural motion of the human arm. So no matter who you are, there will be issues, other than the few iron men who are exceptions rather than the rule. There is zero proof that Sale can have the injury-free longevity of a guy like Randy Johnson.

The Sox have been cautious with Sale, but so were the Nationals with Strasburg.

IMO, there's room here to make a deal. The Sox are risking that he could be paid well to sit out 18 months and Sale is risking that he can improve further and increase his future earning power.

Unless Boras is representing him (who always pushes for the max), I think a deal makes sense to both sides.

Last edited by russ99; 12-01-2012 at 02:55 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2012, 06:29 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Come on, this time last year all the way until the 2012 season ended, Peavy and Sale were the China Dolls of the pitching staff who were 100% destined for the 60-Day DL per the experts at WSI.


Oh, of the five guys who who were in the starting rotation on Opening Day 2012, the only ones who never saw the DL during the season were.......Sale and Peavy.
Sale did come out of the rotation and miss starts on more than one occasion, each time due to a loss of effectiveness. Even our pitching coach wanted to relegate him to the pen for the entire season because of injury concern.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2012, 08:16 AM
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Understanding that some of this would be buying out arbitration years, etc., wouldn't this still be an unprecedented contract to a pitcher from the White Sox? Hard to imagine the Sox signing any pitcher to an 8 year deal.
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