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  #271  
Old 12-15-2012, 11:12 PM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveFeelsRight View Post
I would rather see the Sox flip Floyd + Thornton for Mark Trumbo and trade Dayan for some pitching.
I am fine with the first part of your sentence, but I keep Dayan. He's going to be an asset in two years.
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  #272  
Old 12-16-2012, 10:12 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by palehozenychicty View Post
I am fine with the first part of your sentence, but I keep Dayan. He's going to be an asset in two years.
A bit of speculation on Dayan is interesting, but iffy.

IMO, the Sox thinking on Viciedo's future should be if Viciedo can replace Konerko's bat in 2 years. Right now, it doesn't look good.

Konerko's first full season:
.294/ .352 /.511 with 24 HR, 81 RBI, 68 K

Viciedo's first full season:
.255/ .300 / .444 with 25 HR, 78 RBI, 120K

There has to be a question if Viciedo will ever hit for average and keep the K's to a managable level.

To me, his upside is like Dunn, without the plethora of walks and with Alexei's free swinging. Not sure if that kind of player is a cornerstone guy, especially considering what Boras is going to want 2-3-4 years from now.
  #273  
Old 12-16-2012, 03:10 PM
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LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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All I know is that I'm getting restless waiting for Hahn to do something. Picking up Keppinger was a nice move and re-signing Jake was great but if the Sox are to win the division something else has to happen.
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  #274  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:28 AM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
A bit of speculation on Dayan is interesting, but iffy.

IMO, the Sox thinking on Viciedo's future should be if Viciedo can replace Konerko's bat in 2 years. Right now, it doesn't look good.

Konerko's first full season:
.294/ .352 /.511 with 24 HR, 81 RBI, 68 K

Viciedo's first full season:
.255/ .300 / .444 with 25 HR, 78 RBI, 120K

There has to be a question if Viciedo will ever hit for average and keep the K's to a managable level.

To me, his upside is like Dunn, without the plethora of walks and with Alexei's free swinging. Not sure if that kind of player is a cornerstone guy, especially considering what Boras is going to want 2-3-4 years from now.
We'll know more these next couple of years.
  #275  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:35 AM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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Originally Posted by TaylorStSox View Post
We already have Connor Jackson. Brandon Wood is available. Who else can we get from the top prospect list from 5 years ago?
Dallas McPherson lol
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  #276  
Old 12-17-2012, 01:41 AM
Konerko05 Konerko05 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
A bit of speculation on Dayan is interesting, but iffy.

IMO, the Sox thinking on Viciedo's future should be if Viciedo can replace Konerko's bat in 2 years. Right now, it doesn't look good.

Konerko's first full season:
.294/ .352 /.511 with 24 HR, 81 RBI, 68 K

Viciedo's first full season:
.255/ .300 / .444 with 25 HR, 78 RBI, 120K

There has to be a question if Viciedo will ever hit for average and keep the K's to a managable level.

To me, his upside is like Dunn, without the plethora of walks and with Alexei's free swinging. Not sure if that kind of player is a cornerstone guy, especially considering what Boras is going to want 2-3-4 years from now.
I'm not really sure why our LF's success has to solely be based on the success of our old 1B, who was one of the best hitters in baseball for a pretty long time.

Regarding the stats, you're comparing two totally different hitters, in totally different scenarios in thei personal life.

You have to take in to account all the adjustments Viciedo has to take on in a foreign country while trying to only focus on improving his game. He is going to progress slower if he didn't come over here as a polished product. He was pretty far from it, and has made progress a lot quicker than I thought would. He also has been bounced around the diamond a lot, which creates more disctractions for a hitter.

Konerko, on the other hand, was an extremely talented and polished hitter drafted in the first round out of high school, and immediately began making an impact. All he had to worry about was what to do with his signing bonus. He could concentrate on nothing, but baseball.

Konerko was rated in the top 50 prospects all four years before making it to the majors. He was the number two prospect in all of baseball before getting promoted to the major leagues. In his first 80 games, he hit worse than Viciedo ever has in the majors. So he even struggled a bit when everyone was absolutely positive he would immediately start raking in the majors.

I honestly believe, just from a little more experience, Viciedo will naturally raise his AVG, and BBs while lowering his strikeouts. He will learn how to hit better, trust me. His pitch recognition and the ability to hold off on a bad pitch will improve dramatically. Not really sure how you can compare him to Dunn. That doesn't really make any sense. He's never going to be a big BB guy, he is never going to strike out anywhere near 200 in a season. He has a short, lightening quick swing. His average during his rookie season where he was only 22 years old was .255. His total career average is .263. It is very silly not to expect that to improve. He doesn't have anywhere close to a Dunn type approach, his numbers just were not that great because he is still unpolished.
  #277  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:38 AM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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Originally Posted by Konerko05 View Post
I'm not really sure why our LF's success has to solely be based on the success of our old 1B, who was one of the best hitters in baseball for a pretty long time.

Regarding the stats, you're comparing two totally different hitters, in totally different scenarios in thei personal life.

You have to take in to account all the adjustments Viciedo has to take on in a foreign country while trying to only focus on improving his game. He is going to progress slower if he didn't come over here as a polished product. He was pretty far from it, and has made progress a lot quicker than I thought would. He also has been bounced around the diamond a lot, which creates more disctractions for a hitter.

Konerko, on the other hand, was an extremely talented and polished hitter drafted in the first round out of high school, and immediately began making an impact. All he had to worry about was what to do with his signing bonus. He could concentrate on nothing, but baseball.

Konerko was rated in the top 50 prospects all four years before making it to the majors. He was the number two prospect in all of baseball before getting promoted to the major leagues. In his first 80 games, he hit worse than Viciedo ever has in the majors. So he even struggled a bit when everyone was absolutely positive he would immediately start raking in the majors.

I honestly believe, just from a little more experience, Viciedo will naturally raise his AVG, and BBs while lowering his strikeouts. He will learn how to hit better, trust me. His pitch recognition and the ability to hold off on a bad pitch will improve dramatically. Not really sure how you can compare him to Dunn. That doesn't really make any sense. He's never going to be a big BB guy, he is never going to strike out anywhere near 200 in a season. He has a short, lightening quick swing. His average during his rookie season where he was only 22 years old was .255. His total career average is .263. It is very silly not to expect that to improve. He doesn't have anywhere close to a Dunn type approach, his numbers just were not that great because he is still unpolished.

This is why I can't understand the people willing to give him up. Power is a dying commodity in baseball, and if you can get it cheaply, you hold it.
As for Konerko, he's not going to play forever at a high level.
  #278  
Old 12-17-2012, 09:14 AM
pudge pudge is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
All I know is that I'm getting restless waiting for Hahn to do something. Picking up Keppinger was a nice move and re-signing Jake was great but if the Sox are to win the division something else has to happen.
I doubt we'll see much more this off-season - what is there left to obtain, really? I hear all this talk about Floyd for a left-handed bat, but have yet to hear one concrete plan that could materialize.
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  #279  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by palehozenychicty View Post
This is why I can't understand the people willing to give him up. Power is a dying commodity in baseball, and if you can get it cheaply, you hold it.
As for Konerko, he's not going to play forever at a high level.
Yeah, and that's one of my biggest concerns going into 2013. I don't know how feasible it is to ask Konerko to be the centerpiece of a lineup at age 37. At some point, the torch has to be passed. But to whom?
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  #280  
Old 12-17-2012, 03:53 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Well I hope we do something.
This team isn't good enough to contend.
So either go get some hitters, or backtrack some and get young propects from the Angels or somewhere (I just mention the Angels because they have prospects and they've signed major FAs, suggesting they're blocked and on the market).
  #281  
Old 12-17-2012, 04:57 PM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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Well I hope we do something.
This team isn't good enough to contend.
I do not agree, particularly if the Sox re-sign A.J. Pierzynski or make a deal for someone like Jarrod Saltalamachia of Boston. And the Sox now have an ideal #2 hitter in Jeff Keppinger who is also a good fielder at third base.

The Sox were in contention for all of 2012 until they ran out of gas and hit a brick wall in the last two weeks of the season. And, if his recovery is on track, John Danks will be back in 2013.

The Sox have 6 legitimate starters: John Danks, Chris Sale, Jake Peavy, Gavin Floyd, Jose Quintana and Hector Santiago. With a year under their belt, the Sox bullpen will be better.

The Sox still need to make some moves, it is true, but overall I am optimistic for 2013.
  #282  
Old 12-17-2012, 05:18 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
A bit of speculation on Dayan is interesting, but iffy.

IMO, the Sox thinking on Viciedo's future should be if Viciedo can replace Konerko's bat in 2 years. Right now, it doesn't look good.

Konerko's first full season:
.294/ .352 /.511 with 24 HR, 81 RBI, 68 K

Viciedo's first full season:
.255/ .300 / .444 with 25 HR, 78 RBI, 120K

There has to be a question if Viciedo will ever hit for average and keep the K's to a managable level.

To me, his upside is like Dunn, without the plethora of walks and with Alexei's free swinging. Not sure if that kind of player is a cornerstone guy, especially considering what Boras is going to want 2-3-4 years from now.
Through age 23, Albert Belle had an OPS of less than .600. I guess this means Viciedo will end up one the best right handed hitters who ever lived.
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  #283  
Old 12-17-2012, 06:01 PM
PorkChopExpress PorkChopExpress is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Through age 23, Albert Belle had an OPS of less than .600. I guess this means Viciedo will end up one the best right handed hitters who ever lived.
Actually, if my math is correct, Belle had an OPS of .650 through age 23, and that basically included one season, since his 2nd season included a grand total of 9 games. And he was dealing with a substance abuse problem (alcohol) those two years, which is why he missed much of the second season I think (rehab).
  #284  
Old 12-18-2012, 01:45 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
I do not agree, particularly if the Sox re-sign A.J. Pierzynski or make a deal for someone like Jarrod Saltalamachia of Boston. And the Sox now have an ideal #2 hitter in Jeff Keppinger who is also a good fielder at third base.

The Sox were in contention for all of 2012 until they ran out of gas and hit a brick wall in the last two weeks of the season. And, if his recovery is on track, John Danks will be back in 2013.

The Sox have 6 legitimate starters: John Danks, Chris Sale, Jake Peavy, Gavin Floyd, Jose Quintana and Hector Santiago. With a year under their belt, the Sox bullpen will be better.

The Sox still need to make some moves, it is true, but overall I am optimistic for 2013.
The Sox have a good #2 hitter if he hits like he did in 2012 or 2010; if he repeats 2011, 2009 or 2008, we don't. And a lot of key Sox had really good years last year -will they duplicate that performance? Now some didn't and could get better. Danks - he's coming off major surgery. We'll have to see. The bench is as bad as it was last year - and it was terrible. So overall, I don't see the Sox as an improved team; Detroit really underperformed in the regular season last year and improved their team this offseason; the Royals improved their team where they really needed it. So all in all, while we could contend, I think the odds are against it with this club.

So my preference would be to shake some things up, or step back and get some young players (we won't be terrible because our starting pitching should be pretty strong). Now I don't want to make clown trades for bullpen pitchers or pieces like that.
  #285  
Old 12-18-2012, 08:18 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is online now
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I don't think pitch recognition is Viciedo's problem. He sees the ball well. His problem, like Vlad and Soriano, is that he has such a big hitting zone he tries to hit everything. As he matures and relaxes at the plate, he'll learn that just because you are capable of driving a certain pitch doesn't mean you should swing at it.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
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