#61
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#62
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I didn't realize you didn't have the names in order. In that case I feel all the players are deserving some more so than others.
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#63
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#64
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Players like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens were making the hof even without the roids. Players like Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro are the ones voters need to look at differently. There is no way Curt Schilling should make the hof before Clemens or Craig Biggio over Bonds. I have no idea how this years voting will end up but with the way McGwire and Bagwell have fared then Bonds and Clemens are going to be left out for awhile. I keep hearing how Biggio and Piazza are making it but theres no way in hell do I believe Piazza was clean and Biggio was best friends with Bagwell so I find it very hard to believe he never used either. Now I know there isn't proof on these guys but with anyone from that era I'd rather see proof that they didn't use. With this era you can't go by who you may think didn't use because some will slip through the cracks and when that happens then it will be a shame that Bonds and Clemens are left out. |
#65
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The difference is in that there was no rule against any drugs without a prescription until 1991 which was made in regards to the cocaine scandals of the 1980s. Guys who used steroids broke that rule, guys who used amphetamines (like Aaron and Mays) did not. There is also the question of how much a drug enhanced one's performance. The fact of the matter is anabolic steroids is a far greater enhancer than amphetamines. Amphetamines is really akin to drinking a couple of pots of coffee, it makes you more alert and mentally sharper but does not improve your physical performance. Steroids does.
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#66
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Is it an ugly truth? Maybe. But they're professional athletes, it's a choice that comes with the job, along with multitudes of other choices that may or may not increase their chances of staying competitive. |
#67
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Also, the supposed biggest steroid teams in baseball are San Francisco and Oakland, due to BALCO. The only confirmed juicers Biggio played with are Caminiti and Finley (who started using in SF, not Houston) at the beginning of his career, and doofus Clemens and his shoot-up pal Pettitte at the end. While some like to assume guilt by association, I firmly believe that Biggio never juiced. And while there is more supposed proof by body size, I think Bagwell didn't either. The man got 3000 hits, he belongs in the Hall. |
#68
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IMO, Barry Bonds' decision to start using made complete sense given the circumstances. I also think that if this issue had existed during any previous era, you'd have many of the players jumping on board.
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#69
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I'm probably going to get flamed for the simplicity of my opinion, but to me it comes down to the fact that these guys cheated. They used illegal substances to boost their game, and that's cheating, forgiving circumstances or not. It's totally irrelevant what Aaron or Mays or Ruth MIGHT have done given the opportunity to do it. The guys that cheated should not be allowed in, plain and simple.
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#70
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I am betting that the HOF voters will differentiate the wild west era from the testing era. Manny Ramirez, for example, won't get in while Bonds, Clemens and maybe even Palmeiro will eventually get in after a number of years of being punished. |
#71
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Being inducted into the Hall of Fame isn't like earning a promotion through your productivity on the job. The Hall of Fame is a place where the players that define what is great about baseball are celebrated, not where you go if you hit 500 home runs. If you tell a grand jury you took money from gamblers who paid players to throw baseball games, you don't belong in the Hall of Fame when one is created to celebrate baseball. If you bet on major league baseball while managing major league baseball, you don't belong in the Hall of Fame. If there is evidence that you enhanced your performance with illegal and banned substances, putting other players you are competing with in a position where they may have to consider using illegal and banned substances, you don't belong in the Hall of Fame. Whether nobody cared about McGwire or Sosa when they were chasing Maris is irrelevant. By the ends of their careers most fans cared, and by the time Bonds was chasing Aaron, even Congress cared about performance enhancing drugs. There is no need for a special wing in the Hall of Fame. There is no reason for Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens et.al. -- you can even throw in Rose -- to be in the Hall of Fame because actions that they are remembered for are the antithesis of Hall of Fame worthy. |
#72
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In 1992 Pete Incavilgia played for the Astros and from what i've heard he popularized roids in the Astros clubhouse, just like he did for the 1993 Phillies. Texas in the late 80's and early 90's was the steroid capital. Balco didn't come along until later on and I doubt Biggio was using masking agents. I think alot of people are confusing Biggio with using during Bonds Balco years. I think Biggio was using during Bonds clean years and he looks like the poster child for being clean in the roided up Bonds years. |
#73
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#74
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Rock over London. Rock on, Chicago. |
#75
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It's hypocritical to encourage this behavior for a decade and then when the hangover comes, to punish the players who were doing exactly what the fans, the media, the owners and the commissioner wanted. Again, Mark McGwire in 1998 had a bottle of Andro, an anabolic steroid, in his locker and admitted to using it for over a year. Nobody cared because it was all about the homerun chase saving baseball. That reaction is what caused a lot of players to start using, and now many of the same baseball writers and fans who ate it up back then are the first to grab pitchforks now. |
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