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  #361  
Old 01-09-2013, 08:37 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
Nell: What constitutes a big market team? If it is attendance, The White Sox are not. Even in 2005, they were not in the top 10. Chicago is a big market but having 2 teams splits the pie too small for the White Sox.

Big market teams may let a Buehrle walk but would sign another big name to replace him.
Sorry to butt in but the way things are going in baseball, big market has little to do with attendance. Its about TV contracts, we will see where the Sox fit, I think in 2016 when their current TV contract expires.
  #362  
Old 01-09-2013, 08:39 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
Nell: What constitutes a big market team? If it is attendance, The White Sox are not. Even in 2005, they were not in the top 10. Chicago is a big market but having 2 teams splits the pie too small for the White Sox.

Big market teams may let a Buehrle walk but would sign another big name to replace him.
Ownership has kept the Sox from being a big market team, we here at WSI have gone over many times the stupid things done by ownership down through the years that alienated fans which has caused attendance to suffer .
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  #363  
Old 01-09-2013, 09:19 PM
#1swisher #1swisher is offline
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Ken Rosenthal

Both #WhiteSox and #RedSox also scouted Javier Vazquez tonight.
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  #364  
Old 01-09-2013, 09:57 PM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by #1swisher View Post
Ken Rosenthal

Both #WhiteSox and #RedSox also scouted Javier Vazquez tonight.
What.
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  #365  
Old 01-09-2013, 10:41 PM
PaleHoser PaleHoser is offline
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Originally Posted by #1swisher View Post
Ken Rosenthal

Both #WhiteSox and #RedSox also scouted Javier Vazquez tonight.
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  #366  
Old 01-09-2013, 11:22 PM
palehozenychicty palehozenychicty is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post

I don't know, it seems their strategy roster wise has been fairly clear the last ten years. Pitching first. That was reinforced this off season when the Sox did in fact sign one of the league's top free agents, Jake Peavy, and picked up Floyd's option.

Sure it stinks we have Dunn in the lineup and seem to be lacking hitters. I'd rather lack hitting than pitching. If you lack hitting you still have a chance, if you lack pitching you have no chance. The Sox pitching in 2013 could turn out to be very good.
I can agree with the pitching somewhat. We have had good depth. No great Cy Young contenders. Sale may be that guy. We'll see.

It's the positional side where they haven't figured out things. Roster is top heavy.

They stay healthy, but wear down often due to lack of depth.

I'm done jacking the thread. Haha.
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  #367  
Old 01-10-2013, 12:01 AM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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I would loved to sign JP Howell or Mike (Michael, now) Gonzelez to the contracts they were given.
  #368  
Old 01-10-2013, 12:28 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
Chicago is a big market, the White Sox play in Chicago, a big market team should never be in a rebuilding mode.
The trouble is that JR and company have for the most part down through the years run the team more like the Royals than the Yankees, Dodgers or Red Sox.
This is wrong from both ends. They've definitely outspent and outperformed the Royals, and they'll NEVER have the kind of money that the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers have. Never. So, to expect them to run a team the way they do is just silly.
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  #369  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:10 AM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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This is wrong from both ends. They've definitely outspent and outperformed the Royals, and they'll NEVER have the kind of money that the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers have. Never. So, to expect them to run a team the way they do is just silly.
We all tend to exagerate things but alienation of the fans by JR and company has kept the Sox from being like the Yankees, Dodgers or Red Sox. In a huge market like Chicago why are we not like them. Do you have a better answer?
I don't know how you feel but it bothers me to no end that a team that lost 100 games outdrew us by almost a million fans while we were in the race all year. It hurts even more because when I was growing up Chicago was a Sox town. I will give some credit to ownership in lowering ticket and parking prices for this coming season, lets hope it helps. I don't know how long it will take to make it a Sox town and a big market team but horrible moves like the original Sportsvision, letting Harry Caray go, the horrible upper deck, the White Flag trade and Dynamic pricing are things that will take some time in the fans minds to overcome.

Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 01-10-2013 at 07:03 AM.
  #370  
Old 01-10-2013, 01:20 PM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
We all tend to exagerate things but alienation of the fans by JR and company has kept the Sox from being like the Yankees, Dodgers or Red Sox. In a huge market like Chicago why are we not like them. Do you have a better answer?
I don't know how you feel but it bothers me to no end that a team that lost 100 games outdrew us by almost a million fans while we were in the race all year. It hurts even more because when I was growing up Chicago was a Sox town. I will give some credit to ownership in lowering ticket and parking prices for this coming season, lets hope it helps. I don't know how long it will take to make it a Sox town and a big market team but horrible moves like the original Sportsvision, letting Harry Caray go, the horrible upper deck, the White Flag trade and Dynamic pricing are things that will take some time in the fans minds to overcome.
I don't think the 'casual' fan knows or cares about the white flag or dynamic pricing. The alienation of the fans, and the loss of a whole generation of fans to the Cubs, was started long before Reinsdorf and company. Moving the Sox to unwatchable UHF channels (very poor signals, and LOTS of televisions without UHF tuners) had pretty much every little kid in the city growing up watching the Cubs only, and Reinsdorf didn't do that. So now, it's a Cubs town, the media (all of them) fawn over the Cubs and ignore the Sox

I will always believe that it's totally unrealistic to expect the White Sox to ever be able to spend and market like the aforementioned teams. If that's really what you expect, you'll forever be disappointed and angry. You have to develop a realistic expectation of what the Sox will be able to do.
  #371  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:12 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
We all tend to exagerate things but alienation of the fans by JR and company has kept the Sox from being like the Yankees, Dodgers or Red Sox. In a huge market like Chicago why are we not like them. Do you have a better answer?
I don't know how you feel but it bothers me to no end that a team that lost 100 games outdrew us by almost a million fans while we were in the race all year. It hurts even more because when I was growing up Chicago was a Sox town. I will give some credit to ownership in lowering ticket and parking prices for this coming season, lets hope it helps. I don't know how long it will take to make it a Sox town and a big market team but horrible moves like the original Sportsvision, letting Harry Caray go, the horrible upper deck, the White Flag trade and Dynamic pricing are things that will take some time in the fans minds to overcome.
Hate to say it but the Cell sucks, the area sucks, getting there sucks.....We have 1 food stand 2 blocks away and a over priced bar on site (bacardi lounge) So having said that.....We need some billionaire/mayor ;-) to build a great atmosphere by buying up a square mile filling it with restaurants/bars/shops/apartments etc!
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  #372  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:51 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSoxNation View Post
Hate to say it but the Cell sucks, the area sucks, getting there sucks.....We have 1 food stand 2 blocks away and a over priced bar on site (bacardi lounge) So having said that.....We need some billionaire/mayor ;-) to build a great atmosphere by buying up a square mile filling it with restaurants/bars/shops/apartments etc!
We will never know but me thinks that the Sox would have been a lot better off if the folks in Addison had given the OK to build the new stadium out there.

Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 01-10-2013 at 07:18 PM.
  #373  
Old 01-10-2013, 07:10 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
I don't think the 'casual' fan knows or cares about the white flag or dynamic pricing. The alienation of the fans, and the loss of a whole generation of fans to the Cubs, was started long before Reinsdorf and company. Moving the Sox to unwatchable UHF channels (very poor signals, and LOTS of televisions without UHF tuners) had pretty much every little kid in the city growing up watching the Cubs only, and Reinsdorf didn't do that. So now, it's a Cubs town, the media (all of them) fawn over the Cubs and ignore the Sox

I will always believe that it's totally unrealistic to expect the White Sox to ever be able to spend and market like the aforementioned teams. If that's really what you expect, you'll forever be disappointed and angry. You have to develop a realistic expectation of what the Sox will be able to do.
Don't forget, one of the major local media outlets OWNED the Cubs during that time too. I'm not sure there was much to be done to fight that anyway.
  #374  
Old 01-10-2013, 07:12 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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I was among the most critical of Comiskey II, and I generally like the newer retro parks. That being said, I don't think the Cell sucks. In fact I like it, am comfortable enough in it, and look forward to my next visit this year. Chicago traffic, always bad has become that much worse since I left the area. Still, is it that difficult to get to the cell? I get it that Chicagoland has spread far and wide. Once upon a time I lived in the far western suburbs and it was quite a haul then. Is it that much harder to get to our park compared to Wrigley? Come on. As for "the area sucks", was it that much better when the park was in the shadow of some of the most forbidding housing projects in the country? Yes, it's not cool and hip like Wrigleyville, but Bridgeport, Chinatown and Armour Square where the park is located, provide some options to eat and drink before and after the game. I love baseball but the last time I was at Wrigley was in 1999, and unless someone wants to comp me I have no plans to go back anytime soon.

LN I agree with you more often than not, but I don't think the Addison option was a good one, and I'm more than happy it did not come to pass. I would have favored the south loop proposal first. In any case, the team has made some good offseason moves with ticket pricing and I hope the fans respond in kind, regardless of where the team is in the standings. Like you LN, I remember when Chicago was really a Sox town.
  #375  
Old 01-10-2013, 07:14 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
Sorry to butt in but the way things are going in baseball, big market has little to do with attendance. Its about TV contracts, we will see where the Sox fit, I think in 2016 when their current TV contract expires.
Agree but they should be related. A team that has trouble drawing will most likely have the same problem attracting TV viewers. Now there are exceptions. Maybe Tampa Bay which has trouble drawing may attract a large senior TV audience but seniors typically are not what TV execs want. If White Sox fans avoid the Cell due to crime, then maybe they have considerably better TV numbers.
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