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  #391  
Old 01-10-2013, 09:10 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Originally Posted by Golden Sox View Post
Most people don't remember or know what happened in the mid 1980's. The City of Chicago led by former Mayor Washington wanted to build a baseball stadium for the White Sox in the South Loop at Roosevelt and Clark. The White Sox and the city could not agree on the finances. The White Sox would of payed more in leasing the stadium than what they are paying now at the Cell. The city would of also received the parking and concessions money. The White Sox get the concessions and parking money at the Cell. I don't know what the other baseball teams pay or receive in terms of leasing, parking and concessions money in their downtown ballparks, (St. Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Minnesota) but I wish the White Sox could of worked something out with the City Of Chicago and had that stadium built at Clark and Roosevelt in the South Loop. The entire perception of the White Sox franchise would of been different if they were playing in the South Loop.
The stadium concept for the White Sox in the South Loop in the mid 80s would have been a White Elephant within a decade. It would have been the Pontiac Silverdome of baseball stadiums. The idea of "Camden Yards in Chicago" didn't exist in the early-to-mid 80s. The stadium on the table in the mid 80s was some fugly dual-purpose domed stadium to be shared by the Sox and the Bears. So, yes, the perception would have been different...probably for the worse.
  #392  
Old 01-10-2013, 09:57 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
The stadium concept for the White Sox in the South Loop in the mid 80s would have been a White Elephant within a decade. It would have been the Pontiac Silverdome of baseball stadiums. The idea of "Camden Yards in Chicago" didn't exist in the early-to-mid 80s. The stadium on the table in the mid 80s was some fugly dual-purpose domed stadium to be shared by the Sox and the Bears. So, yes, the perception would have been different...probably for the worse.
The only thing that would have been good about that stadium would have been its location, but even New Comiskey became a sort of white elephant (at least in terms of design) within a year when Camden Yards opened. HOK Design originally offered to make a sort of remake of Old Comiskey for the White Sox with more modern amenities but JR shot that idea down of being too expensive. It's just another case of the White Sox being penny wise but pound foolish.
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  #393  
Old 01-11-2013, 12:16 AM
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Nellie_Fox Nellie_Fox is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
HOK Design originally offered to make a sort of remake of Old Comiskey for the White Sox with more modern amenities but JR shot that idea down of being too expensive. It's just another case of the White Sox being penny wise but pound foolish.
You do know that the State of Illinois paid for Comiskey II, not the White Sox, don't you?
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  #394  
Old 01-11-2013, 01:00 AM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
The stadium concept for the White Sox in the South Loop in the mid 80s would have been a White Elephant within a decade. It would have been the Pontiac Silverdome of baseball stadiums. The idea of "Camden Yards in Chicago" didn't exist in the early-to-mid 80s. The stadium on the table in the mid 80s was some fugly dual-purpose domed stadium to be shared by the Sox and the Bears. So, yes, the perception would have been different...probably for the worse.
I always thought they should have put the park in Beverly near Western Ave.
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  #395  
Old 01-11-2013, 01:08 AM
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I always thought they should have put the park in Beverly near Western Ave.
I think an ideal location would have been in the suburbs, preferably just off of I-294, somewhere between 95th Street and Ogden Avenue. Such a location would be right in the heart of White Sox country and would feature access to I-294, I-55, I-355, I-88 and I-290.
  #396  
Old 01-11-2013, 08:22 AM
TaylorStSox TaylorStSox is offline
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The idea of locating Comiskey in the suburbs or Beverly makes me cringe.
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I'm not counting this homerun or his 3 RBI from today's game because of the game situation. I'm not counting his pinch hit solo homerun in a blowout win in Colorado. In my book, Crede has 2 less home runs than his statistics show, 4 less RBI, and one less walk (the one where he pinch hit for Uribe after coming in with a 3-0 count and taking one pitch).
  #397  
Old 01-11-2013, 08:29 AM
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We will never know but me thinks that the Sox would have been a lot better off if the folks in Addison had given the OK to build the new stadium out there.
At best, it would be exactly the same and, as Brian points out, likely far, far worse. Instead of building a depressing Ball Mall surrounded by parking lots in a dull corner of the city, they would have built a depressing Ball Mall in a dull corner of the suburbs (EDIT - This is not to say I don't like the Cell, because I do... post-renovations. But let's be honest, when it first opened, the Cell had all the charm of a blank concrete slab). The problem with the park has never been the location, it's been the execution; Sox Park was obsolete within a year of it's opening when Camden Yards ushered in the new era of retro parks and the sea of empty lots around Sox Park has just destroyed the neighborhood it's in. Seriously, Bridgeport is a nice place, there's a lot going on down there that's cool; Maria's is one the best bars in the city, Nana is about as good as any restaurant you'll find on the North Side (save for, maybe the very top of the line), etc. It's just none of that approaches the park because the park has always tried to be absent from it's surroundings. I'm not saying let's get rid of all the lots, I understand that driving is still the only option for a lot of people, but the park was designed in that '70s-style "sprawl is great!" kind of thinking that is just not popular at all any more. It's why suburbs all over the region are focusing more resources on redeveloping their traditional downtown business districts or why '50s-era malls are being retrofitted to be more "walkable." That's just the wave of the future and as long as the Sox continue to buck the trend, they're going to need to play excellent baseball year in and year out to not grapple with attendance numbers.

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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
If the Sox had been playing in Addison for the past 20 years, they'd be about as irrelevant now as the Kane County Cougars.

Case in point, which nobody ever even considers in discussion, what Chicago media would, on a nightly basis in the summer, drive the hell out to Addison to cover the team? It takes ten minutes to get down to the Cell using Canal Street from downtown. The Sox would get less coverage than any of the other teams, and they'd be the red-headed step child of Chicago sports.

The other issue that people seem to diregard is that the population of the City is growing larger, which wasn't the case in the 70s and 80s. Suburban sprawl has come to a grinding halt. Young people want to live in the city or the nearby burbs.

Yes, the South Loop would have been an interesting location and a cool view of the skyline, but whatever. It's water under the bridge. The product on the field is what counts. See 2006 attendance figures.
Pretty much. More than anything else, the transportation network of the whole area really precludes building a pro sports stadium anywhere outside of the city's central area, maybe except for the Bears who only need to fill the park 8 times per year almost exclusively on weekends.
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Last edited by doublem23; 01-11-2013 at 12:57 PM.
  #398  
Old 01-11-2013, 08:34 AM
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Great. Another thread hijacked by a discussion of why Sox fans won't go to the Cell. Don't we debate this every four days?!
  #399  
Old 01-11-2013, 09:20 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Great. Another thread hijacked by a discussion of why Sox fans won't go to the Cell. Don't we debate this every four days?!
Back on track:

Supposedly Justin Upton rejected a deal to Seattle. Also lesser bats Jason Kubel and Mike Morse are on the block.

If the Sox want to add a bat, there are some possibilities. The only problem I see is other teams are offering prospects, while we're probably offering an overpaid Gavin Floyd.
  #400  
Old 01-13-2013, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Back on track:

Supposedly Justin Upton rejected a deal to Seattle. Also lesser bats Jason Kubel and Mike Morse are on the block.

If the Sox want to add a bat, there are some possibilities. The only problem I see is other teams are offering prospects, while we're probably offering an overpaid Gavin Floyd.
If the Sox want Upton, Hahn could try to get creative and trade for some of the prospects the Mariners were offering and then flip them back to the D'backs in a package. The D'backs obviously wanted some of those players and were willing to part with Upton to get them. Since the Sox don't have the prospects to get it done, perhaps we can trade for the prospects we need. Probably a pipe dream, but an outfield of Upton, De Aza, and Rios could be the best in the division.
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  #401  
Old 01-13-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
Back on track:

Supposedly Justin Upton rejected a deal to Seattle. Also lesser bats Jason Kubel and Mike Morse are on the block.

If the Sox want to add a bat, there are some possibilities. The only problem I see is other teams are offering prospects, while we're probably offering an overpaid Gavin Floyd.
The historical footnote for a trade of Gavin Floyd for Mike Morse would be amusing. The Sox traded Miguel Olivo, Ryan Sweeney and Morse to the Mariners for Freddy Garcia in '04. Garcia was traded to the Phillies after the 2006 season for Gavin Floyd. So, the Sox would be re-acquiring one of the guys they traded for Freddy Garcia in exchange for one of the guys they acquired for Freddy Garcia. The odd part is that nine years ago, I don't recall anybody saying Morse had a chance to even play in the big leagues.
  #402  
Old 01-13-2013, 08:52 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
The historical footnote for a trade of Gavin Floyd for Mike Morse would be amusing. The Sox traded Miguel Olivo, Ryan Sweeney and Morse to the Mariners for Freddy Garcia in '04. Garcia was traded to the Phillies after the 2006 season for Gavin Floyd. So, the Sox would be re-acquiring one of the guys they traded for Freddy Garcia in exchange for one of the guys they acquired for Freddy Garcia. The odd part is that nine years ago, I don't recall anybody saying Morse had a chance to even play in the big leagues.
That was before Morse started doping.
  #403  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:17 PM
WhiteSoxNation WhiteSoxNation is offline
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With the amount of talented RHP in our division. We need more than Dunn and DeAza hitting from the left side.


verlander, scherzer, sanchez, shields, guthrie, etc....
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  #404  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:06 AM
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The historical footnote for a trade of Gavin Floyd for Mike Morse would be amusing. The Sox traded Miguel Olivo, Ryan Sweeney and Morse to the Mariners for Freddy Garcia in '04. Garcia was traded to the Phillies after the 2006 season for Gavin Floyd. So, the Sox would be re-acquiring one of the guys they traded for Freddy Garcia in exchange for one of the guys they acquired for Freddy Garcia. The odd part is that nine years ago, I don't recall anybody saying Morse had a chance to even play in the big leagues.
I think it was the great Jeremy Reed, not Ryan Sweeney, but your point is a good one.
  #405  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:07 PM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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The historical footnote for a trade of Gavin Floyd for Mike Morse would be amusing. The Sox traded Miguel Olivo, Ryan Sweeney and Morse to the Mariners for Freddy Garcia in '04. Garcia was traded to the Phillies after the 2006 season for Gavin Floyd. So, the Sox would be re-acquiring one of the guys they traded for Freddy Garcia in exchange for one of the guys they acquired for Freddy Garcia. The odd part is that nine years ago, I don't recall anybody saying Morse had a chance to even play in the big leagues.
I too remember this. IIRC, he was a shortstop at the time. If anyone has seen him play in Washington, he is much bigger than traditional shortstop.
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