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  #466  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:36 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Kind of ironic you're so eager to jump on any member of the "WSI Medical Staff" who brings up the concerns scouts have had with Chris Sale his projected longevity but have no problems advancing baseless medical diagnoses about Verlander.
I'm not saying he's going to get injured, I'm just saying his shoulder will get tired in a few years. Big difference.
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  #467  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:38 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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They have a one-stud rotation. The others are pretty good, but not studs. Also their defense is horrendous and they are one the most streaky teams in MLB.

Other than that, crown them.
What are you basing "one-stud" rotation on. I count three aces, two of which belong in the top ten pitchers in all of baseball (one being the obvious above all others number one).

If you think the Tiger's have a one-stud rotation, what do you think of other rotations? Sheesh.
  #468  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:40 AM
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I'm not saying he's going to get injured, I'm just saying his shoulder will get tired in a few years. Big difference.
Overlooking the fact that a "tired shoulder" is an injury for a pitcher, what exactly is your expert medical advice on this topic based on? Verlander's got just as clean of a bill of health as Sale does. Calling out and belittling people who regurgitate scouting reports that say one may be injured but turning around and proclaiming the other might be is hypocritical.
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  #469  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:42 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Pretty much and even if Detroit wins 105+ games next year (which I am going on the record now that I am highly, HIGHLY skeptical of), so what? Nobody gets an award for being the best team in the regular season. If the 2012 Tigers, a miserable collection of talent that spent most of the season under .500, can win the pennant then the only goal really does seem to be to just find a way to get to October.



This is a ridiculously inconsistent argument in that every prognisticator that you bow down to about Detroit a few posts ago also had the Lakers as a lock to be one of the top teams in the West. So you can't have it both ways. If you're going to cite how all the "experts" out there are drinking the Tiger Kool-Aid hard then you have to also be willing to live with the fact that the "experts" are wrong plenty of times.
Other than "AL Central Champion" and home field advantage in playoff, no award at all.

As for the Lakers, that's not exactly true. Yes, there were plenty of pundits all over them, but just as many were doubting based on the issues I've mentioned. The Tigers are consensus. Be honest, can you look at that rotation and not feel it's the best in baseball? Can you look at that lineup and not feel it's at least top three in baseball?
  #470  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:44 AM
Carolina Kenny Carolina Kenny is offline
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I don't know where to begin.

Verlander is not breaking down. He's not shown any signs of that, and is never injured. I don't know where that's coming from. That's like looking at Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson at age 28 and saying "boy they throw hard, bet they're out of the league in a few years".

Do you know who led the AL in strikeouts last year? Verlander of course, being his normal self. Know who was just barely second? Max Scherzer. And he did it in fewer innings. In fact, Scherzer had a better second half of the season than Verlander did, and was the obvious ace of that rotation. And no, Verlander didn't have a down second half. Scherzer's that good, and is an ace on probably 20 other teams in the league.

Do you know what Doug Fister's ERA was the last two seasons? 2.83 and 3.45. Not a misprint. Other than Sale, we don't have a starter that can claim something like that.

Ah yes, and Annibal Sanchez. Who many claim isn't as good as Gavin Floyd. Despite the fact that in a decade in the league, he's always had an ERA in the 3's.

Not that special. Right....
Unfortunately, I agree with Blandman for the most part. As we know MLB can be crazy/unpredictable, but on paper the Kittens are the cream of the AL Central, maybe all of the AL.

We had career years from several players last year and still came up short. I have not felt such a lack of buzz and excitment about the Sox for many years. Who is appealing and exciting about this current crew:

Rios: our best all round position player but seems to lack the spark which makes him a fan favorite
Beckham: a potential fan favorite, but does not hit well enough
Cuban Missle: a solid, solid SS but not a superstar we hoped for
Konerko: another very solid player for many years but second half declines are very concerning
Tank: is he still a superstar in the making?
Dunn: The worst AVE since Karko. Epic Fail, and obviously no one is going to the park to see the Donkey. Ugh.
De Aza: one year wonder? Time will tell.
The Catch: just a sub
Flowers: if he can hit 22-25 HRS, count me a fan
Klepp: a new fan club called the "klepomanicas", sure.

We need better players. You can't fool Sox fans with this crap.
( our pitching is most likely better than league average, hooray.)
  #471  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:44 AM
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Other than "AL Central Champion" and home field advantage in playoff, no award at all.

As for the Lakers, that's not exactly true. Yes, there were plenty of pundits all over them, but just as many were doubting based on the issues I've mentioned. The Tigers are consensus. Be honest, can you look at that rotation and not feel it's the best in baseball? Can you look at that lineup and not feel it's at least top three in baseball?
Ask the Yankees and Nationals how much "Division Champion" and home field in the playoffs means. (Hint: Nothing)

And that is absolutely not true about the Lakers. I can't definitively say that everyone was high on them coming into this season but to say it was split 50/50 is just bull****. The Tigers, I am sure, are no more consensus than LAL was.
  #472  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:45 AM
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I have not felt such a lack of buzz and excitment about the Sox for many years.
I guess you weren't around last February
  #473  
Old 01-23-2013, 10:56 AM
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What are you basing "one-stud" rotation on. I count three aces, two of which belong in the top ten pitchers in all of baseball (one being the obvious above all others number one).

If you think the Tiger's have a one-stud rotation, what do you think of other rotations? Sheesh.
Three ace rotations don't win World Series titles. Four is the minimum.
  #474  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:03 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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I guess you weren't around last February
I'm about as excited as last February.
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  #475  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:04 AM
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Ask the Yankees and Nationals how much "Division Champion" and home field in the playoffs means. (Hint: Nothing)

And that is absolutely not true about the Lakers. I can't definitively say that everyone was high on them coming into this season but to say it was split 50/50 is just bull****. The Tigers, I am sure, are no more consensus than LAL was.
Well, can we at least agree that our road to actually getting into the playoffs is significantly hindered because of the talent amassed by the Tigers?

I'm sick of talking about the Tigers. This is supposed to be a thread about improving our team. But it seems like most people are content with the players on our roster. And that's troubling. This is not a very good team. Our lineup is relying heavily on an aging star who was amongst the worst hitters in the second half last year and two other "stars" who two years ago had the worst and second worst statistical seasons in the history of baseball. Our "young" positional core includes two middle infielders that can't hit all that well (and never will), a left fielder who can't make contact enough and has zero batting eye (great combination!), and a journeyman minor leaguer who put together one semi-decent season for a regular. Oh yeah. And Tyler Flowers, who is supposed to replace the best regular season we've ever had from a catcher. Despite the fact that if he hits .240 it'll be a freakin' miracle.

Our rotation is better than that, but Danks is still probably a year away from being himself and Sale's arm is likely to explode before he hits arbitration. We REALLY need to add talent to this team. Core talent. Or it's going to be a devastating next half decade.
  #476  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:12 AM
Carolina Kenny Carolina Kenny is offline
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I guess you weren't around last February
You are correct, last year at this time was also terrible and spirits were low.

However, even with so many things that went better than expected for us in 2012 the Sox failed in the end and did not ever inspire the fan base as it should have.

My take is that we do not have the type of team that fans can really rally around and that we do not have enough of the type of players that the fans are loving.

We have no Mojo.
  #477  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:18 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Last February, another WSI Mod and I had lunch together. He and I readily agreed that there were too many pessimists at WSI about the upcoming 2012 season and that the Sox were definite contenders for the division. So, yes, there was excitement last February about the White Sox.

I won't reveal his name to protect him from slings and arrows.
  #478  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:24 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Last February, another WSI Mod and I had lunch together. He and I readily agreed that there were too many pessimists at WSI about the upcoming 2012 season and that the Sox were definite contenders for the division. So, yes, there was excitement last February about the White Sox.

I won't reveal his name to protect him from slings and arrows.
If we had last year's team from February (with AJ, Konerko not coming off a season he didn't look completely finished, Danks not injured), I'd feel a lot better now too. We're not as good as last year, and the young pieces (like Dayan) have not given reason to be optimistic.

Being optimistic for the sake of being optimistic is fool-hardy. That's exactly the kind of stuff that makes White Sox staffers look at our fan base and not feel like they're doing something wrong. This is a bad team as currently contstructed. You should be angry.
  #479  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:32 AM
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This is a bad team as currently contstructed. You should be angry.
Or people can just ****ing disagree with your assessments. Jesus Christ.
  #480  
Old 01-23-2013, 11:35 AM
Carolina Kenny Carolina Kenny is offline
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If we had last year's team from February (with AJ, Konerko not coming off a season he didn't look completely finished, Danks not injured), I'd feel a lot better now too. We're not as good as last year, and the young pieces (like Dayan) have not given reason to be optimistic.

Being optimistic for the sake of being optimistic is fool-hardy. That's exactly the kind of stuff that makes White Sox staffers look at our fan base and not feel like they're doing something wrong. This is a bad team as currently contstructed. You should be angry.
I am angry about our lack of stars. We have no current positional players that are projected to be All Stars. This is a superstar driven sports world.
Our best positional players are in decline or have reached a plateau.
It is a sad time to be a Sox fan. Something/someone must literally come out of LF to save this sorry situation.
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