Rays Owner: MLB No Longer Believes in Tampa

[Irishsox1]

Nashville. They have a pro hockey team and pro football team. Yes, they have a AAA team for the Brewers but if I was the Rays, I would be looking at Nashville.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Sacramento would probably be high on the list. I think they have the 20th largest market in the United States. I don't know how that would affect the The A's though because I hear they might move to San Jose. That may be a rumor, not positive on that.

I don't think the SouthEast is a good spot for baseball, I know Atlanta seems like a baseball city but from what I hear the fans in Atlanta are pretty fair weather. The Braves are lucky to have some good baseball minds because I guarantee if they start losing its gonna be 10,000 attendance nights again. Unless Nashville somehow created a dynasty like the Braves I think they would end up being like the Rays and Marlins.

Nascar and college football fans seem pretty loyal and alot of those fans probably consider baseball a sport for Northern Yankees.

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Unless the state of Florida is willing to allow them to break a long term lease and go somewhere else, the Rays aren't going anyplace, regardless of what they draw.

And by all accounts the state is not willing to do this.

Lip

Originally Posted by TheVulture

The lease is actually with the city of St Petersburg, but from what I've read you are otherwise absolutely correct.

The bonds to pay off the dome expire in 2016 so that is more of a magic date in the minds of the Rays ownership than the actual lease through 2027. If the Rays were to leave Tropicana (or Tampa area) in 2017, at least they would not leave St. Petersburg with a bill, rather just a big, ugly balldome to sell, lease or re-develop as they please. Commercial lease deals are broken and re-negotiated on a regular basis based on legal outclause interpretation, market conditions, etc.

MLB's first priority is its "brand" and if the Tampa Bay area can't support the MLB brand with a ballpark either in St. Petersburg or Tampa, I'm sure MLB will step in to do whatever it takes to support the integrity of the league. The other owners aren't going to sit back with their revenue sharing model and watch the Rays ownership fail especially after they have proven they can produce a strong, winning franchise. For example, the Yankees ownership has been the biggest local proponent outside of the Rays ownership to support a new ballpark in Tampa Bay.

What hurts the Tampa Bay market for both MLB and NFL is that even with winning seasons/on field products, attendance is still an issue.

[mrfourni]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

The bonds to pay off the dome expire in 2016 so that is more of a magic date in the minds of the Rays ownership than the actual lease through 2027. If the Rays were to leave Tropicana (or Tampa area) in 2017, at least they would not leave St. Petersburg with a bill, rather just a big, ugly balldome to sell, lease or re-develop as they please. Commercial lease deals are broken and re-negotiated on a regular basis based on legal outclause interpretation, market conditions, etc.

MLB's first priority is its "brand" and if the Tampa Bay area can't support the MLB brand with a ballpark either in St. Petersburg or Tampa, I'm sure MLB will step in to do whatever it takes to support the integrity of the league. The other owners aren't going to sit back with their revenue sharing model and watch the Rays ownership fail especially after they have proven they can produce a strong, winning franchise. For example, the Yankees ownership has been the biggest local proponent outside of the Rays ownership to support a new ballpark in Tampa Bay.

What hurts the Tampa Bay market for both MLB and NFL is that even with winning seasons/on field products, attendance is still an issue.

Interesting article on why the Rays probably won't be leaving the Tampa area, at least in the immediate future:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...re-of-the-same

[TDog]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

Sacramento would probably be high on the list. I think they have the 20th largest market in the United States. I don't know how that would affect the The A's though because I hear they might move to San Jose. That may be a rumor, not positive on that. ...

I don't expect the A's will ever move to San Jose. The A's ceded the territory to the Giants before the Giants built a stadium with private financing secured with the understanding that San Jose was and would be Giants territory. I've been told there are financial considerations that go beyond the competition for fans -- tickets and merchandising and such. Really, the South Bay is not the East Bay. You don't have to cross a toll bridge to get from San Jose to San Francisco and you do to get into The City from Oakland.

I also don't see Sacramento as a candidate for Major League Baseball, although in some ways the A's might seem better off there. Raley Field, home of the River Cats, an A's affiliate, seats less than 12,000. Bringing it up to Major League standards would seem a major undertaking. I don't see such renovations or a new stadium being built in this economic and political environment, not with government involvement anyway. Sacramento may not be able to hang on to its NBA team much longer.

Still, if any team were going to move to Sacramento, it would pretty much have to be the A's.

[SCCWS]

Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187

In a brand new billion dollar stadium with a bunch of new stars, that isn't good enough. They played .700 ball in May and still couldn't draw flies.

You responded without reading the post. His statement

"We heard the same story in Miami. They built a multi-million dollar facility in the "better location", and they still couldn't draw. "

My response was actually they did draw............. probably because of the new stadium. 27,000 a game was 12th best in MLB yet Miami finished almost 30 games out. Better attendance than our White Sox who were in the race until the very end.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by SCCWS

My response was actually they did draw............. probably because of the new stadium. 27,000 a game was 12th best in MLB yet Miami finished almost 30 games out. Better attendance than our White Sox who were in the race until the very end.

27 K a night in a brand new stadium is drawing nothing

[Chez]

Originally Posted by Irishsox1

Nashville. They have a pro hockey team and pro football team. Yes, they have a AAA team for the Brewers but if I was the Rays, I would be looking at Nashville.

Love Nashville. Was there two weekends ago and couldn't believe the incredible support for the Preds. People mention Montreal, but do we know whether Montreal wants a team back?

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by Chez

Love Nashville. Was there two weekends ago and couldn't believe the incredible support for the Preds. People mention Montreal, but do we know whether Montreal wants a team back?

Nashville is waaaaaaaaaaay too small to be considered for an MLB team. ****, the MSA barely has more than 1.6 million people and that covers almost 7,000 square miles of real estate.

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Nashville is waaaaaaaaaaay too small to be considered for an MLB team. ****, the MSA barely has more than 1.6 million people and that covers almost 7,000 square miles of real estate.

According to this list Milwaukee is now the smallest market in MLB which actually surprised me so Nashville might be able to support a team as they have a few more citizens than Milwaukee but I don't think MLB will give up on Tampa and they will get a new stadium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tistical_Areas

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

According to this list Milwaukee is now the smallest market in MLB which actually surprised me so Nashville might be able to support a team as they have a few more citizens than Milwaukee but I don't think MLB will give up on Tampa and they will get a new stadium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tistical_Areas

Not all MSA's are built equally, Nashville's MSA may have about 100 K more residents, but these Southern and Western geographic areas are almost always larger in size, and therefore less dense, than their Eastern and Midwestern counterparts.

Nashville's MSA is approximately 7,000 square miles large. Milwaukee's is 2,300 square miles. I'd be willing to bet if you superimposed the boundaries of the Milwaukee MSA centered on Nashville, you'd never come close to matching the population.

Also, I've only been to Nashville and even then we just drove through, but it seems like that town has the most illogically laid road network. Can't imagine it's a picnic trying to navigate it ever.

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Not all MSA's are built equally, Nashville's MSA may have about 100 K more residents, but these Southern and Western geographic areas are almost always larger in size, and therefore less dense, than their Eastern and Midwestern counterparts.

Nashville's MSA is approximately 7,000 square miles large. Milwaukee's is 2,300 square miles. I'd be willing to bet if you superimposed the boundaries of the Milwaukee MSA centered on Nashville, you'd never come close to matching the population.

Also, I've only been to Nashville and even then we just drove through, but it seems like that town has the most illogically laid road network. Can't imagine it's a picnic trying to navigate it ever.

You are right about the roads in Nashville, been through there many times on trips between Chicago and Florida and you really have to pay attention to the road signs.

[LITTLE NELL]

Tampa Tribune article today about a Tuesday meeting with Rays owner Sternberg and area politicos. Amazing figure for upcoming season; only 300 season ticket accounts from St. Pete which comes out to about 1000 fans a game from St. Pete season ticket sales. Sternberg stated that there are just not enough people from St. Pete that are supporting the team. The team must be moved closer to downtown Tampa or the Carillon area in North Pinellas county. Sternberg feels that the team can draw an average of close to 30,000 a game with a move (I know of another team that would love to average 30,000 a game). The Lightning are selling out the Forum with 19,000 a game so it's quite possible that the Rays could get close to 30,000 a game in a new stadium as I'm sure there are a lot more baseball fans than hockey fans in the TB area.

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

Tampa Tribune article today about a Tuesday meeting with Rays owner Sternberg and area politicos. Amazing figure for upcoming season; only 300 season ticket accounts from St. Pete which comes out to about 1000 fans a game from St. Pete season ticket sales. Sternberg stated that there are just not enough people from St. Pete that are supporting the team. The team must be moved closer to downtown Tampa or the Carillon area in North Pinellas county. Sternberg feels that the team can draw an average of close to 30,000 a game with a move (I know of another team that would love to average 30,000 a game). The Lightning are selling out the Forum with 19,000 a game so it's quite possible that the Rays could get close to 30,000 a game in a new stadium as I'm sure there are a lot more baseball fans than hockey fans in the TB area.

Pretty much sums up the challenge the Rays face. I actually think downtown St. Pete is nicer/prettier than downtown Tampa, however it's not the epicenter of professional sports for the area.

Out of all the proposed locations, my favorite location and the site I think the Rays would be most successful is downtown Tampa next to the Times Forum. The land is begging to be developed and combined with Lightning hockey, concert events and the Channelside arts & entertainment venues, I think the Rays would do well there, especially if the ballpark is state of the art with a retractable roof.

The Carillon concept is nice, however I don't think it will fix the attendance problem based on the location.

[ComiskeyBrewer]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Nashville's MSA is approximately 7,000 square miles large. Milwaukee's is 2,300 square miles. I'd be willing to bet if you superimposed the boundaries of the Milwaukee MSA centered on Nashville, you'd never come close to matching the population.

Milwaukee's MSA is REALLY small, If you add the extra square miles to the surrounding counties, Milwaukee jumps to around 2.5 million people(with an extra 500 sq miles to spare).