White Sox... 3rd worst farm system in baseball

[Frater Perdurabo]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

SoxNation05:

When Clayton was with the Sox his ERA was around five and he usually couldn't make it out of the 6th inning.

Maybe he would have gotten better, but I don't think so.

He was 'mediocrity defined' with the Sox, pitching against stacked A.L. batting orders. let's not forget that either.

Lip

Any pitcher helps his stats pitching home games in Petco, with the deep gap fences, sea-level altitude, cool and dry air, and lack of DH in the NL. Petco helped Peavy and it helps Clayton Richard.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo

Any pitcher helps his stats pitching home games in Petco, with the deep gap fences, sea-level altitude, cool and dry air, and lack of DH in the NL. Petco helped Peavy and it helps Clayton Richard.

Richard's 2012:
Home: 3.02 ERA, 1.101 WHIP
Away: 4.74 ERA, 1.338 WHIP

[CoopaLoop]

Originally Posted by Lip Man 1

Coopa:

That's what happens when you draft based on "signability" and also to avoid dealing with agents you don't like.

Lip

Agreed.

Hopefully last year was the beginning of a turn around.

[CoopaLoop]

Originally Posted by Domeshot17

I also do not have a big problem with Law. Law is not ever on the Sox side, but he also has not been very wrong about Sox prospects. Big Ceiling, future star like players have not come up through the Sox Farm (sans Chris Sale who got about 2 cups of Coffee and a Donut in the minors). Bland is right that Law ranks based on the likelihood of being great, not being useful. That is why guys like Santiago, Quintana etc. don't really count in these rankings. A lot of teams get back end rotation, fill in lineup, bullpen contributions from these fringe types.

Law ranked Hawkins 74 in his Top 100, which was good, and Carlos Sanchez got some praise in his "10 that just missed". He writes with Sanchez that he doesn't see the defensive tools to be an everyday SS. He thinks he will hit .300, but lack the power/offensive ability to be a great 2b. Kind of sounds like he projects him to be a .300 hitter but with a low .700 OPS. Kind of a 8-9 hitter.

I think Law is one of the best if you can deal with his snarky bit. It is a bit he does.

[rdivaldi]

Originally Posted by CoopaLoop

Agreed.

Hopefully last year was the beginning of a turn around.

With the current CBA in place, the right players will be drafted in the right place....at least until someone finds a loophole and Boras starts exploiting it. But until that day comes, the Sox will have no excuses to not go after the top talent when available.

[Domeshot17]

Originally Posted by rdivaldi

With the current CBA in place, the right players will be drafted in the right place....at least until someone finds a loophole and Boras starts exploiting it. But until that day comes, the Sox will have no excuses to not go after the top talent when available.

Well, to be fair, this system actually forces teams to be more prepared, so it is not really a level playing field. You just can't throw money at guys anymore. That said, you have the ability to be really creative with money and spend less early to spend more later. Teams who just pick guys to sign in at slot and don't use money strategically tend to get hammered more by the scouts who write for websites and such (and not just ESPN, but a bunch of them).

[rdivaldi]

Originally Posted by Domeshot17

Well, to be fair, this system actually forces teams to be more prepared, so it is not really a level playing field.

You mean it actually forces them to scout?

[Domeshot17]

Originally Posted by rdivaldi

You mean it actually forces them to scout?

Well scout and have a plan. I.E. they are not actually penalized from going over slot they are penalized for going over budget. So if they know they can get a round 2 talent to sign a little cheaper in round 2 and the same in round 3 but then in Round 4 will have flex to go over budget and sign a first rounder who fell, that is huge.

[SoxNation05]

Originally Posted by blandman

PEAVY wouldn't be on the sox if we had Clayton. What exactly are you arguing? That Clayton is better than Peavy? That's a tough sell.

My god. Nowhere in any of my posts did I even insinuate or let alone mention Peavy's name. Only you could take what I say and run off on a complete tangent like that. I was speaking completely hypothetical, in the scenario Richard would magically land on the roster. Basically, if the Sox had to chose between Richard, Quintana and Santiago for the fifth rotation spot they would choose Richard because of his history. Either that or they would trade Floyd and have two of the Richard/Quintana/Santiago group.

[SoxNation05]

[QUOTE=Lip Man 1;3023823]SoxNation05:

When Clayton was with the Sox his ERA was around five and he usually couldn't make it out of the 6th inning.

Maybe he would have gotten better, but I don't think so.

He was 'mediocrity defined' with the Sox, pitching against stacked A.L. batting orders. let's not forget that either.

Lip[/QUOTE/]

I watched all of that and I acknowledge that but Richard ha been servicable his last three years. Yes, it was in SD but for at least the beginning of the year that would give him the nod over less experienced starters Quintana and Santiago.

Regardless, I think the Sox know you need to have deep starting pitching and would welcome the depth.

[pearso66]

Originally Posted by SoxNation05

My god. Nowhere in any of my posts did I even insinuate or let alone mention Peavy's name. Only you could take what I say and run off on a complete tangent like that. I was speaking completely hypothetical, in the scenario Richard would magically land on the roster. Basically, if the Sox had to chose between Richard, Quintana and Santiago for the fifth rotation spot they would choose Richard because of his history. Either that or they would trade Floyd and have two of the Richard/Quintana/Santiago group.

I think the point he was making was the Sox traded Richard for Peavy, so in order to have Richard in the rotation Peavy wouldn't be there. So basically the Sox would be in the same position they are now, except would have Richard instead of Peavy, which in turn would make the rotation worse. I know you were speaking hypothetical, but realistically, this is what would have happened.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by SoxNation05

My god. Nowhere in any of my posts did I even insinuate or let alone mention Peavy's name. Only you could take what I say and run off on a complete tangent like that. I was speaking completely hypothetical, in the scenario Richard would magically land on the roster. Basically, if the Sox had to chose between Richard, Quintana and Santiago for the fifth rotation spot they would choose Richard because of his history. Either that or they would trade Floyd and have two of the Richard/Quintana/Santiago group.

Before you fly off the handle and attack me, keep in mind the point was made because Clayton was traded for Peavy. So Peavy wouldn't be here. And he's certainly better than Clayton. Which is why whatever point your trying to make doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

[rdivaldi]

Originally Posted by Domeshot17

Well scout and have a plan. I.E. they are not actually penalized from going over slot they are penalized for going over budget. So if they know they can get a round 2 talent to sign a little cheaper in round 2 and the same in round 3 but then in Round 4 will have flex to go over budget and sign a first rounder who fell, that is huge.

Right, the "take a bunch of cheap college seniors" strategy that most of the teams were using. But still, this doesn't sway the talent like the previous system. You can't toss millions at a player taken in the 10th round, so guys like Hunter Virant opted to go to college instead.

They'll continue to try and manipulate the rules, but this system gives us a much better shot.

[DirtySox]

Posting this SSS larry piece. Great read, some great quotes. I'm optimistic for the future of the minor league system.

Marco Paddy Puts White Sox Latin Operations Back on Track

[rdivaldi]

Originally Posted by DirtySox

Posting this SSS larry piece. Great read, some great quotes. I'm optimistic for the future of the minor league system.

Marco Paddy Puts White Sox Latin Operations Back on Track

Super piece, a must read.

One of my favorite parts:

"Silverio, after a halting start to his pro career, has climbed the White Sox' organizational ladder, reaching High-A in 2012. Baseball America ranked him as the No. 31 prospect in the organization in their 2013 rankings; in their 2008 rankings, without having played pro ball, the outlet ranked him No. 7 and said he possessed the best infield arm. Phil Rogers and BA were taken along for the ride with the White Sox."