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  #16  
Old 02-12-2013, 04:26 PM
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asindc asindc is offline
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Originally Posted by Tree Hate Me View Post
I imagine the Redskins would get a lot of flak from their older fans if they were to change the name....but if they do it right think of all the money they can rake in from selling their new apparel.

As someone on Deadspin commented they could just offer to tweak the meaning of "redskins" and put an Idaho potato on their helmets.
You don't have to imagine. Many of the older fans would throw a fit. The passion regarding the name is such that if you are not a 'skins fan, you are better off not commenting on the issue here. For the record, some former players called for a name change while they were still playing.
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2013, 04:34 PM
Thome25 Thome25 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tree Hate Me View Post
I imagine the Redskins would get a lot of flak from their older fans if they were to change the name....but if they do it right think of all the money they can rake in from selling their new apparel.

As someone on Deadspin commented they could just offer to tweak the meaning of "redskins" and put an Idaho potato on their helmets.
Given the location of the Redskins in Southern Maryland /Northern Virginia , they could change their name to "Rednecks" and no one would notice.
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  #18  
Old 02-12-2013, 05:58 PM
Thome25 Thome25 is offline
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Originally Posted by Red Barchetta View Post
Have the new SOX BP/Spring Training caps gone onsale yet? I didn't see it on the official site. They look nice matched up with the black jerseys based on the photos released today from inside the clubhouse. I'm hoping this will be my new favorite cap. I really liked the similar styled BP cap from a few years ago, except the mesh fabric was not as nice as the new ones.

I also like the revised Braves cap. I'm still warming up to all the alternate logos and white crowns. I'm glad the SOX kept their caps simple, although I wonder how the Diamond SOX or the Flying SOX would have looked.
They're on sale here:

http://mshop.mlb.com/product/index.j...uctId=18738236

They now come in actual sizes rather than small-medium, medium-large, and large-extra large.

They also look big and boxy like the authentic in-game caps.

Both are also let down.
  #19  
Old 02-12-2013, 07:10 PM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
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Originally Posted by Thome25 View Post
I disagree with the over-sensitive people who bitch and moan about this ****ing nonsense.

It is an honor for Native Americans to be used as sports teams' nicknames/logos.

Teams use Native American names and imagery because in the past they were strong, fierce, and brave warriors.

I have especially disagreed with Paul Lukas of ESPN/ Uni Watch over this issue.

Edit: I can understand the outrage over the Cleveland Indians' Chief Wahoo logo and The Washington Redskins' name but, for folks to be upset over the names and imagery of ALL of these teams is just ridiculous.

If they ever mess with the Blackhawks name or logo I'll be the one who's outraged.
Haha, wow, yeah that's sort of a huge leap there, not assuming but telling Native Americans that they should be proud to be, essentially, a brand. Holy ****.
  #20  
Old 02-12-2013, 07:32 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by Thome25 View Post

It is an honor for Native Americans to be used as sports teams' nicknames/logos.
I would love to hear an explanation for this sentence.
  #21  
Old 02-12-2013, 07:54 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Without trying to be too political, which is difficult in a thread like this, my thoughts on this are like this. While some depictions of Native Americans or use of Native American names in sports are racist (Chief Wahoo for example, or the team name "Redskins"), I think that not every example of using native American imagery is racist. I have always found the Blackhawks logo to be a respectful depiction of a noble Native American warrior, specifically of Black Hawk. I think though that some people go too far, Paul Lukas is becoming one of them, in the assertion that all tribal imagery be removed. Sports Illustrated had a poll in 2002 that showed that 83% of Native Americans said they did not object to nor did they want teams to stop using Native American imagery in sports. A lot of people, Paul Lukas included, have cited some flaws in that poll and perhaps there are some but they also seem to dismiss that poll in an attempt to have it fit in with their own narrative. I wish SI or ESPN would run another poll now to remedy some of the flaws with the old one and maybe see if Native Americans find SOME logos offensive and not others.
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2013, 07:59 PM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Without trying to be too political, which is difficult in a thread like this, my thoughts on this are like this. While some depictions of Native Americans or use of Native American names in sports are racist (Chief Wahoo for example, or the team name "Redskins"), I think that not every example of using native American imagery is racist. I have always found the Blackhawks logo to be a respectful depiction of a noble Native American warrior, specifically of Black Hawk. I think though that some people go too far, Paul Lukas is becoming one of them, in the assertion that all tribal imagery be removed. Sports Illustrated had a poll in 2002 that showed that 83% of Native Americans said they did not object to nor did they want teams to stop using Native American imagery in sports. A lot of people, Paul Lukas included, have cited some flaws in that poll and perhaps there are some but they also seem to dismiss that poll in an attempt to have it fit in with their own narrative. I wish SI or ESPN would run another poll now to remedy some of the flaws with the old one and maybe see if Native Americans find SOME logos offensive and not others.
For me a lot of it depends on that individual team's relationship with and portrayel of whatever given Native American tribe or Indian they are using as a logo or name. Like, the Redskins? Yeah **** that. That's a disgrace. There is no comparision with an organization like that to, say, the Blackhawks.
  #23  
Old 02-12-2013, 08:22 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Roarman View Post
Haha, wow, yeah that's sort of a huge leap there, not assuming but telling Native Americans that they should be proud to be, essentially, a brand. Holy ****.
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
I would love to hear an explanation for this sentence.
These responses remind me of the infamous rant by jeremyb1, self-appointed leader of the "stat-geeks."
  #24  
Old 02-12-2013, 08:46 PM
Red Barchetta Red Barchetta is offline
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Originally Posted by Thome25 View Post
They're on sale here:

http://mshop.mlb.com/product/index.j...uctId=18738236

They now come in actual sizes rather than small-medium, medium-large, and large-extra large.

They also look big and boxy like the authentic in-game caps.

Both are also let down.

Thanks! $35.00! The price went up. They do look a little more boxy so I think I will wait until they hit the stores so I can try one on first. I hope they have the lower crown.

In looking at the product description, they indicate that this is the game 59Fifty cap. Perhaps that's why the caps have actual sizes. I wonder if the SOX are adding this cap as an alternate cap for games? Perhaps they are wearing it with the black jerseys/road uniforms? The higher price would justify that.

...or maybe the desciption is incorrect.

Edit - The SOX have it up on their website store (MLB). Looks like it is a 59Fifty, but they indicate that it is for batting practice. I wonder if the 39Thirty caps are being discontinued?

http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.js...1452702.709744

Last edited by Red Barchetta; 02-12-2013 at 08:55 PM.
  #25  
Old 02-12-2013, 09:06 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
These responses remind me of the infamous rant by jeremyb1, self-appointed leader of the "stat-geeks."
i don't see the parallel.
  #26  
Old 02-12-2013, 09:07 PM
johnnyg83 johnnyg83 is offline
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I like the name Braves. I think if the imagery and logos were done correctly it could actually be a positive (a la The Courageous).

Am I naive?
  #27  
Old 02-12-2013, 09:51 PM
Bob Roarman Bob Roarman is offline
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Originally Posted by RKMeibalane View Post
These responses remind me of the infamous rant by jeremyb1, self-appointed leader of the "stat-geeks."
What? This is nothing at all like that. Not one bit. No one is making up the fact that lots of Native Americans are offended by offensive logos parodying them and their heritage and customs, not to mention using derogatory racial terms and images as sports team names and mascots. Is EVERY Native American outraged about EVERY single example of it? No, like I said, it's a case on case basis. But to have someone say they should be "honored" just to be included in the wonderful world of sports in that way, **** that. What's more important, being respectful to these people or ****ing sports? It's not surprising because people gotta have their sports. It wouldn't be the end of my world if the Blackhawks changed their name/logo because they were disrespectful of it.

But this is good though, very illuminating, posts like these. Nice to know what kind of people we're dealing with by being this honest.
  #28  
Old 02-12-2013, 09:55 PM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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I've seen the circa 1970 Braves logo before, but it seemed to me laughing, not screaming.
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  #29  
Old 02-12-2013, 10:13 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by Railsplitter View Post
I've seen the circa 1970 Braves logo before, but it seemed to me laughing, not screaming.
Yea, that's always the impression that I got too.
  #30  
Old 02-12-2013, 10:22 PM
RKMeibalane RKMeibalane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
i don't see the parallel.
Well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Roarman View Post
What? This is nothing at all like that. Not one bit. No one is making up the fact that lots of Native Americans are offended by offensive logos parodying them and their heritage and customs, not to mention using derogatory racial terms and images as sports team names and mascots. Is EVERY Native American outraged about EVERY single example of it? No, like I said, it's a case on case basis. But to have someone say they should be "honored" just to be included in the wonderful world of sports in that way, **** that. What's more important, being respectful to these people or ****ing sports? It's not surprising because people gotta have their sports. It wouldn't be the end of my world if the Blackhawks changed their name/logo because they were disrespectful of it.

But this is good though, very illuminating, posts like these. Nice to know what kind of people we're dealing with by being this honest.
I said I was reminded of the thread jeremyb1 started, not that it was exactly like it. I made the comparison because thome25 seemed to be trying to speak for Native Americans as though they're incapable of speaking for themselves, just as jeremyb1 was doing with Shingo.
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