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  #31  
Old 03-07-2013, 08:30 PM
samurai_sox samurai_sox is offline
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Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
I agree.

If there's anything I think the current ownership has done right over their tenure is to not sink too much money long term into pitchers. They've been famously been burnt a couple times and I think they've learned their lesson. Pitchers, while if they stay healthy can be a great deal if you invest long term early. But if they break down they can really hamstring your franchise for a long, long time.
Yeah, Barry Zito's deal with the Giants really hurt that franchise, they only have 2 World Series championships in the last 3 seasons.
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  #32  
Old 03-07-2013, 08:36 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is online now
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Originally Posted by samurai_sox View Post
Yeah, Barry Zito's deal with the Giants really hurt that franchise, they only have 2 World Series championships in the last 3 seasons.
That was a little different, as it was a free-agent deal (that many at the time saw as ridiculous), not a team locking up it's own player during his arbitration years.

In other words, the Giants guaranteed Zito $126 million over 7 years when he signed the deal at the peak of his prime or just past it. The White Sox have "just" $35 million guaranteed over 5 seasons to Chris Sale, before he's even eligible for free agency.
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  #33  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:16 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by kevingrt View Post
Not arguing with you really but what was Buehrle?

Very solid, dependable but never sniffed a cy young season. A pitcher every team would like to have but not that dominate shut down guy.
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  #34  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:16 PM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Not arguing with you really but what was Buehrle?
McDowell was no better than Buehrle. Numbers are pretty much identical.
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  #35  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post

Yearly salary breakdown from SSS:

2013 - $850 K
2014 - $3.5 M
2015 - $6 M
2016 - $9.15
2017 - $12 M
2018 - $12.5 M OPTION
2019 - $13.5 M OPTION
So, Sale could be here another seven years and, at his highest contract point in the last year of the deal, he will still be making one million dollars less than what Peavy is making this year. That's amazing.
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  #36  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sullythered View Post
McDowell was no better than Buehrle. Numbers are pretty much identical.
McDowell had a couple of prolific seasons ('92 and '93) that probably top anything Buehrle ever accomplished during an individual season, but if you're talking over the long haul, considering durability, dependibility, poise during big games, and overall accomplishments, Buerhle of course blows him away. It's a fun discussion. Buehrle's legacy will be greater than McDowell's though.
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  #37  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by samurai_sox View Post
Yeah, Barry Zito's deal with the Giants really hurt that franchise, they only have 2 World Series championships in the last 3 seasons.
The Giants had an amazing group of guys come up at the same time with Lincecum, Cain, Posey, Panda, and that bullpen, none of which were making huge money yet. I won't say they were "lucky" because there's no such thing as luck in developing that much talent, but they were very fortunate that the Zito thing didn't hurt as bad as it could have.
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  #38  
Old 03-07-2013, 09:56 PM
sullythered sullythered is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
McDowell had a couple of prolific seasons ('92 and '93) that probably top anything Buehrle ever accomplished during an individual season, but if you're talking over the long haul, considering durability, dependibility, poise during big games, and overall accomplishments, Buerhle of course blows him away. It's a fun discussion. Buehrle's legacy will be greater than McDowell's though.
Buehrle's 04 and 05 were just as strong as Blackjack's 92 and 93. Very slight advantages for McDowell in ERA and innings pitched, Buehrle with the slight advantage in WHIP, SO/BB. They were both awesome for us, but Mark is every bit the ace that Jack was.
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  #39  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:42 PM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samurai_sox View Post
Yeah, Barry Zito's deal with the Giants really hurt that franchise, they only have 2 World Series championships in the last 3 seasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
The Giants had an amazing group of guys come up at the same time with Lincecum, Cain, Posey, Panda, and that bullpen, none of which were making huge money yet. I won't say they were "lucky" because there's no such thing as luck in developing that much talent, but they were very fortunate that the Zito thing didn't hurt as bad as it could have.
Ya, because the Giants and White Sox finances are exactly the same too.

And Zito can still throw. Maybe not as effectively as he once could, but he didn't "break down" in the manner I was speaking. He's still somewhat productive.
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  #40  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Thigpen View Post
Ya, because the Giants and White Sox finances are exactly the same too.
I'm actually agreeing with your point if you'd take a moment to try to digest the discussion.

Most franchises would be crippled by that Zito signing. The Giants would have been crippled as well, but they were fortunate that an entire core group of guys came up with relatively small salaries, such that the Giants didn't have to go out and try to fill holes with free agents or overpriced veterans through trades.
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  #41  
Old 03-07-2013, 11:55 PM
Bobby Thigpen Bobby Thigpen is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I'm actually agreeing with your point if you'd take a moment to try to digest the discussion.

Most franchises would be crippled by that Zito signing. The Giants would have been crippled as well, but they were fortunate that an entire core group of guys came up with relatively small salaries, such that the Giants didn't have to go out and try to fill holes with free agents or overpriced veterans through trades.
Honestly, I don't really know why I quoted you. I didn't find anything you said to be wrong. I agree with you as well.
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  #42  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:26 AM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Sale is wise to take this deal. The bird in the hand beats two in the bush.
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  #43  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:07 AM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
McDowell had a couple of prolific seasons ('92 and '93) that probably top anything Buehrle ever accomplished during an individual season,
McDowell
'92 125 ERA+ 260 IP
'93 122 ERA+ 256 IP
Buehrle
'01 140 ERA+ 221 IP
'05 144 ERA+ 239 IP

Tough call. McDowell pitched a lot more innings but Buehrle had four seasons with a higher ERA+ than McDowell's best season and was the best pitcher on a World Series champion team.

BTW:
Sale '13: 142 ERA+ 196 IP
I'd say he still has alittle work to do to usurp Buehrle's mantle.
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  #44  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:10 AM
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Chez Chez is offline
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How about a little appreciation for the Chairman for approving this deal?
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  #45  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:21 AM
soltrain21 soltrain21 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
How about a little appreciation for the Chairman for approving this deal?
How could he not approve this? This is a no brainer.
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