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[doublem23]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I think the movie is great for teaching younger fans about what Robinson went through but I find hard to believe any kid over 7 wouldn't know who Jackie Robinson is. I know Jackie Robinson went through alot and I respect him for his courage but the movie doesn't tell the whole story on him and thats what I was hoping for.

There's plenty of people who don't know what's the capital of the state they live in, don't assume anything

[DumpJerry]

Originally Posted by spawn

I saw it Saturday. If you knew little or nothing about Jackie Robinson, you would love this movie. I took a date to see it, and she really liked it. My problem with it is I feel like they only scratched the surface of what he endured, and it only captured his time with the Montreal team and his rookie season in the bigs. He had to deal with that for two years without retaliation, and it probably shortened his career. That said, what pleasantly surprised me was the theater I was at was packed, and the attendees were mostly young white kids. And even if the movie didn't go far enough with the treatment he received, at least you did get a glimpse and feel for it. And i'm glad they touched on his being court martialed while in the army, something i don't think a lot of people know. Definitely worth the price of admission.

Knowing that the movie was only about two hours long, I did not expect an in-depth depiction of what Robinson went through during his career because the move could not start cold with his debut with the Dodgers. I think the movie did a good job of showing what the attitudes were leading up to his signing and how widespread those attitudes were (not just in the South, but throughout MLB regardless of geography).

When the movie "ended" I felt a little cheated, but then they went into the postscript stuff which gave a sense of what happened to Robinson and some of the significant other people in the movie after his rookie year.

Baseball fans might be disappointed by the amount of actual baseball scenes, but I think the movie's message was contained mostly in what happened off the field. They showed enough baseball stuff to show how the other players, reporters and one Manager in particular felt about Robinson's presence in what they felt was their exclusive domain.

The fact that Durocher was the only person officially punished by MLB in direct connection to Robinson (the reason cited was total pretext) speaks volumes of how strong the attitudes were back then. I know Chapman never managed after that year, but there was no official word from MLB banning him for his actions.

Poor Durocher was later further punished by being forced to manage the Cubs in, among other great years, 1969.......

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by TDog

If it was overdramatized, it was done so for reasons different thatn other sports movies because the intent was to drive home the contribution that Jackie Robinson and a few others made to America. which really cam't be exaggerated. Robinson's 10-year career, at least the initial years of it, probably took at least 10 years off his life.

I agree with that. Robinson was actually an intelligent man, you might have even called him an intellect, a rarity in baseball then and now. It's an important reason among many others that Rickey chose him to be the first. Robinson had a highly competitive nature that he had to stifle partly in the early years. Oh he was allowed to beat you with his legs, arm and bat but he had to endure some really cruel abuse. Things got better as the 40's became the 50's, but the early years had to take their toll. I remember seeing Robinson on TV at game 2 of the 1972 World Series in Cincinnati and thinking how bad he looked. He was gone 9 days later at the young age of 53.

[DSpivack]

Can anyone recommend a good book about Robinson's life and/or career? Or Larry Doby, for that matter?

[ChiSoxGirl]

Originally Posted by spawn

I saw it Saturday. If you knew little or nothing about Jackie Robinson, you would love this movie. I took a date to see it, and she really liked it. My problem with it is I feel like they only scratched the surface of what he endured, and it only captured his time with the Montreal team and his rookie season in the bigs. He had to deal with that for two years without retaliation, and it probably shortened his career. That said, what pleasantly surprised me was the theater I was at was packed, and the attendees were mostly young white kids. And even if the movie didn't go far enough with the treatment he received, at least you did get a glimpse and feel for it. And i'm glad they touched on his being court martialed while in the army, something i don't think a lot of people know. Definitely worth the price of admission.

I teach seventh grade and a bunch of my students said they saw this movie over the weekend. All of them loved it and, knowing how much of a baseball fan I am, said I have to see it.

[chicagowhitesox1]

Originally Posted by DSpivack

Can anyone recommend a good book about Robinson's life and/or career? Or Larry Doby, for that matter?

I read two books about him. I can't recall the names of them but both were very good books. Apparently Robinson wasn't as well liked as some may think. If I recall correctly, Robinson got along more with his white teammates than he did with Campanella and Newcombe. I know the book touched on this so i'm not sure how much Robinson didn't get along with his black teammates. But I always thought it was kind of a shame that they hand picked Robinson for this honor instead of Josh Gibson or Satchel Paige. I feel baseball did a great thing in finally letting blacks into baseball but I always felt they snubbed alot of people by how they chose. I realize they chose Robinson because he had the strength and courage and smarts to take the namecalling but these other guys like Gibson and Paige had been busting their tails off for years and to not get chosen to be the first black mlb player because they weren't smart or level headed enough is disrespectful in it's own way.

[cub killer]

I read an article a while ago saying that instead of integration into MLB, the World Series should have been Negro League Champion vs MLB Champion. And that that would have been better for the black community, since this would have elevated the Negro Leagues higher than the AL and NL.

[happydude]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I read two books about him. I can't recall the names of them but both were very good books. Apparently Robinson wasn't as well liked as some may think. If I recall correctly, Robinson got along more with his white teammates than he did with Campanella and Newcombe. I know the book touched on this so i'm not sure how much Robinson didn't get along with his black teammates. But I always thought it was kind of a shame that they hand picked Robinson for this honor instead of Josh Gibson or Satchel Paige. I feel baseball did a great thing in finally letting blacks into baseball but I always felt they snubbed alot of people by how they chose. I realize they chose Robinson because he had the strength and courage and smarts to take the namecalling but these other guys like Gibson and Paige had been busting their tails off for years and to not get chosen to be the first black mlb player because they weren't smart or level headed enough is disrespectful in it's own way.

Perhaps it was. However, the overall goal was to integrate baseball permanently for the foreseeable future. In order to do that, it was necessary to demonstrate to those within the sport and the much larger and more influential multitudes outside of it, many of whose only information about Blacks consisted of racist propaganda, that the American pastime would only be enhanced by the skills of these wonderful Black ballplayers.

Incidents created by frustrated and angry responses to the type of race-baiting and abuse that went on would have only served to undermine this objective by giving ammunition to the vocal opponents of integration in any arena; the reason why Blacks and Whites needed to be separate "for their own good". To be successful long term instead of just one big splash, it needed to be as smooth a transition as possible and that was always going to fall on the shoulders of whichever Black player came first.

Skill was important but not as important as mental and emotional makeup and disposition.

[spawn]

Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1

I read two books about him. I can't recall the names of them but both were very good books. Apparently Robinson wasn't as well liked as some may think. If I recall correctly, Robinson got along more with his white teammates than he did with Campanella and Newcombe. I know the book touched on this so i'm not sure how much Robinson didn't get along with his black teammates. But I always thought it was kind of a shame that they hand picked Robinson for this honor instead of Josh Gibson or Satchel Paige. I feel baseball did a great thing in finally letting blacks into baseball but I always felt they snubbed alot of people by how they chose. I realize they chose Robinson because he had the strength and courage and smarts to take the namecalling but these other guys like Gibson and Paige had been busting their tails off for years and to not get chosen to be the first black mlb player because they weren't smart or level headed enough is disrespectful in it's own way.

I don't know which books you read, but you may want to go back and re-read them. happydude already touched on this , but Jackie Robinson wasn't chosen because he was the best player in the Negro Leagues. He was chosen because Rickey felt he was the best for integrating baseball. Josh Gibson had a history of emotional issues and baggage. Satchel Paige was too old. So no, it wasn't disrespectful. There was a little more thought put into it than simply who was the best player available.

[Golden Sox]

1) Jackie Robinson book: Opening Day by Jonathan Eig.
2) Larry Doby book: Larry Doby by Joseph Moore.
There are numerous books about Jackie Robinson but I think Opening Day which deals with Robinsons first year is the best one I've read. Some baseball historians have felt that if the Dodgers had brought Robinson up during the 1946 season the Dodgers would of won the pennant in 1946 instead of losing to the Cardinals in the Playoffs. Durocher wanted to bring Robinson up in the 1946 season, but was overruled by Rickey. Durocher thought Robinson had enough talent to be on the team and should of been brought up during the 1946 season.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by cub killer

I read an article a while ago saying that instead of integration into MLB, the World Series should have been Negro League Champion vs MLB Champion. And that that would have been better for the black community, since this would have elevated the Negro Leagues higher than the AL and NL.

Yeah, seperate but equal worked out so well

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by spawn

I don't know which books you read, but you may want to go back and re-read them. happydude already touched on this , but Jackie Robinson wasn't chosen because he was the best player in the Negro Leagues. He was chosen because Rickey felt he was the best for integrating baseball. Josh Gibson had a history of emotional issues and baggage. Satchel Paige was too old. So no, it wasn't disrespectful. There was a little more thought put into it than simply who was the best player available.

Also, Josh Gibson died before the 1947 season

[spawn]

Originally Posted by doublem23

Also, Josh Gibson died before the 1947 season

Yeah, but that couldn't have been foreseen. He had stroke in '43 and was hospitalized in '44. That said, the guy battled drugs and alcohol his adult life. Players like Babe Ruth, who the media covered for, could get away with that. The first black player since the game was segregated wouldn't be so lucky, as everyone would be trying to find a reason integrating the game wouldn't be a good idea. Gibson was one of the best to play the game, but would not have been a good choice for breaking the color barrier.

[spawn]

Originally Posted by cub killer

I read an article a while ago saying that instead of integration into MLB, the World Series should have been Negro League Champion vs MLB Champion. And that that would have been better for the black community, since this would have elevated the Negro Leagues higher than the AL and NL.

In who's eyes? They still would not have been deemed equal in terms of playing side by side with MLB'ers. It was bout more than just a game.

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by spawn

Yeah, but that couldn't have been foreseen. He had stroke in '43 and was hospitalized in '44. That said, the guy battled drugs and alcohol his adult life. Players like Babe Ruth, who the media covered for, could get away with that. The first black player since the game was segregated wouldn't be so lucky, as everyone would be trying to find a reason integrating the game wouldn't be a good idea. Gibson was one of the best to play the game, but would not have been a good choice for breaking the color barrier.

Oh, absolutely, I don't think there's any question that Jackie Robinson was the right man for the job, when you understand what he went through, especially those first few years in Brooklyn, it's just amazing he was able to endure it all. And even if he wasn't the best black baseball player of his time, he was still a very, very good player.