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  #16  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:26 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxNation05 View Post
Wouldn't expect anything less than this marvelous post from you.
But he's right.

Last year we had solid defense, good pitching, good fundamental play & focus- with a frustrating offense.

This year- our offense sucks, we're towards the bottom on defense, and I've seen more lapses in fundamentals (can't get a bunt down, missing the cut off man, etc .) in 2 weeks than I saw for the entire 1st half in 2012.
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  #17  
Old 04-16-2013, 12:29 PM
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JB98 JB98 is offline
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I still don't understand the specific issues people have with Ventura. The team is fundamentally flawed. Firing Ventura would just be rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.
I agree. Eighty-five wins with the 2012 roster was a pretty good managing job, IMO.

Would the team really be better if the Sox fired Ventura and replaced him with an "experienced" manager? I don't believe so. Same flawed roster, same problems.

Ventura got more out of this core group in 2012 than Guillen got out of them the previous three years. Maybe that's damning with faint praise, but I don't know what people expect.
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  #18  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:07 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I agree. Eighty-five wins with the 2012 roster was a pretty good managing job, IMO.

Would the team really be better if the Sox fired Ventura and replaced him with an "experienced" manager? I don't believe so. Same flawed roster, same problems.

Ventura got more out of this core group in 2012 than Guillen got out of them the previous three years. Maybe that's damning with faint praise, but I don't know what people expect.
I do hold Ventura accountable for the drop off in fundamentals/focus that is very noticable between 2012 & 2013- something is very different this year.
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  #19  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:25 PM
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I do hold Ventura accountable for the drop off in fundamentals/focus that is very noticable between 2012 & 2013- something is very different this year.
That's fair. We'll see if Ventura can fix it, or if it becomes a season-long trend.

I find myself wondering whether Sox players are taking their bad at-bats with them out to the field. That sort of mindset leads to poor defense.
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:50 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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The whole organization needs to shore up.
Bingo.
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  #21  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:35 PM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
But he's right.

Last year we had solid defense, good pitching, good fundamental play & focus- with a frustrating offense.

This year- our offense sucks, we're towards the bottom on defense, and I've seen more lapses in fundamentals (can't get a bunt down, missing the cut off man, etc .) in 2 weeks than I saw for the entire 1st half in 2012.
We have played 13 games. We have been in every game but one. Our hitters are not getting the hits when they need to. It happens. We could just as easily be 7-6 right now. This site is the most impatient group of dark clouds.

Putting 2007 aside, we have been watching Floyd pitch for 5 years. You think the posters here would figure out that Floyd is inconsistent and streaky. Right now he is dealing with a rough stretch.

Our offense sucks every April. We just need to start hitting with RISP. Simple as that. Playing on the road and in April is not going to help but I don't know if we can expect what we have been given so far (IN 13 GAMES or 8.02% of the season).

Our defense has had some fluky games and Beckham has gotten hurt (not that Beckham's injury has affected our D).

Our bullpen has been great minus Jones and Thornton's bad inning hurts his ERA.

Our starting pitching hasn't been great. Sale had the worst start of his career but does that mean he's not going to be an ace this year? I don't think so. Peavy had one bad start where he looked good for the most part but was left in too long. Floyd has been Floyd. Quintana had one bad inning. Axelrod shouldn't even be in the rotation but he has had one good and one bad start each. If Axelrod sucks again tonight maybe Hector will get the shot he deserves.
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  #22  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:41 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
But he's right.

Last year we had solid defense, good pitching, good fundamental play & focus- with a frustrating offense.

This year- our offense sucks, we're towards the bottom on defense, and I've seen more lapses in fundamentals (can't get a bunt down, missing the cut off man, etc .) in 2 weeks than I saw for the entire 1st half in 2012.
I agree with him also. Perhaps he'd get a better reception if he wasn't prone to treating some posters with barely veiled contempt.
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:46 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxNation05 View Post
We have played 13 games. We have been in every game but one. Our hitters are not getting the hits when they need to. It happens. We could just as easily be 7-6 right now. This site is the most impatient group of dark clouds.

Putting 2007 aside, we have been watching Floyd pitch for 5 years. You think the posters here would figure out that Floyd is inconsistent and streaky. Right now he is dealing with a rough stretch.

Our offense sucks every April. We just need to start hitting with RISP. Simple as that. Playing on the road and in April is not going to help but I don't know if we can expect what we have been given so far (IN 13 GAMES or 8.02% of the season).

Our defense has had some fluky games and Beckham has gotten hurt (not that Beckham's injury has affected our D).

Our bullpen has been great minus Jones and Thornton's bad inning hurts his ERA.

Our starting pitching hasn't been great. Sale had the worst start of his career but does that mean he's not going to be an ace this year? I don't think so. Peavy had one bad start where he looked good for the most part but was left in too long. Floyd has been Floyd. Quintana had one bad inning. Axelrod shouldn't even be in the rotation but he has had one good and one bad start each. If Axelrod sucks again tonight maybe Hector will get the shot he deserves.
Is this Hawk, Rongey or both? The flaws many of us, and non-Sox-fan analysts, saw on paper before the season have played out in the first two weeks. I do not condemn a team for two weeks of play, but problems are problems, and they existed before Game 1.
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:47 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
I agree with him also. Perhaps he'd get a better reception if he wasn't prone to treating some posters with barely veiled contempt.
Wait, I try to veil my contempt? My contempt is pretty direct. Thus, I am insulted! How dare you?
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2013, 02:52 PM
Boondock Saint Boondock Saint is offline
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The list of people who don't need to get their **** together is pretty short.
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  #26  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:02 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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The list of people who don't need to get their **** together is pretty short.
Roger Bossard. After that....hmmm....the guy who checks bags in the merchandise cart outside Gate 4 is pretty solid.
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  #27  
Old 04-16-2013, 04:02 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxNation05 View Post
We have played 13 games. We have been in every game but one. Our hitters are not getting the hits when they need to. It happens. We could just as easily be 7-6 right now. This site is the most impatient group of dark clouds.

Putting 2007 aside, we have been watching Floyd pitch for 5 years. You think the posters here would figure out that Floyd is inconsistent and streaky. Right now he is dealing with a rough stretch.

Our offense sucks every April. We just need to start hitting with RISP. Simple as that. Playing on the road and in April is not going to help but I don't know if we can expect what we have been given so far (IN 13 GAMES or 8.02% of the season).

Our defense has had some fluky games and Beckham has gotten hurt (not that Beckham's injury has affected our D).

Our bullpen has been great minus Jones and Thornton's bad inning hurts his ERA.

Our starting pitching hasn't been great. Sale had the worst start of his career but does that mean he's not going to be an ace this year? I don't think so. Peavy had one bad start where he looked good for the most part but was left in too long. Floyd has been Floyd. Quintana had one bad inning. Axelrod shouldn't even be in the rotation but he has had one good and one bad start each. If Axelrod sucks again tonight maybe Hector will get the shot he deserves.
It is not as simple as that. Hitting with RISP is just one aspect. This team can't draw a walk. It's pathetic when a player has more walks individually than an entire team. And even more pathetic that as a team they are 10 walks behind the next closest team to them. The approach so far seems to be home run or nothing. Dunn talked in the offseason about how much more aggressive he was going to be earlier in counts this season and he has been atrocious at the plate this year. That could change, and guys could start drawing walks and hitting to the opposite field and driving runners in and playing baseball the way it should be played but as of now I don't see that happening.

And as far as Robin goes, while he did a great job last season this team is showing the same approach to fundamentals that we saw when Ozzie was here. Which makes one wonder what the hell happened in ST this year. And fans are going to wonder if his heart is really into managing this team considering he never considered managing until someone in the organization reached out to him and his refusal to accept a contract extension. He either doesn't want to manage or doesn't want to be here because he knows how dire of a situation the organization is in.
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  #28  
Old 04-16-2013, 06:25 PM
SoxNation05 SoxNation05 is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
It is not as simple as that. Hitting with RISP is just one aspect. This team can't draw a walk. It's pathetic when a player has more walks individually than an entire team. And even more pathetic that as a team they are 10 walks behind the next closest team to them. The approach so far seems to be home run or nothing. Dunn talked in the offseason about how much more aggressive he was going to be earlier in counts this season and he has been atrocious at the plate this year. That could change, and guys could start drawing walks and hitting to the opposite field and driving runners in and playing baseball the way it should be played but as of now I don't see that happening.

And as far as Robin goes, while he did a great job last season this team is showing the same approach to fundamentals that we saw when Ozzie was here. Which makes one wonder what the hell happened in ST this year. And fans are going to wonder if his heart is really into managing this team considering he never considered managing until someone in the organization reached out to him and his refusal to accept a contract extension. He either doesn't want to manage or doesn't want to be here because he knows how dire of a situation the organization is in.
You are 100% correct on your assessment of the offense but I am not ready to give up on them on April 16th. Of all the teams problems, the offense is the biggest. However, I think a team can still potentially contend with a sometimes problematic offense.
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  #29  
Old 04-16-2013, 08:10 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Two weeks in and the Sox are fundamentally flawed in 2013 and it's Ventura's fault?

Got it.
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  #30  
Old 04-17-2013, 12:49 AM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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Two weeks in and the Sox are fundamentally flawed in 2013 and it's Ventura's fault?

Got it.
Yeah, it is too early to say that the Sox are fundamentally flawed. On the bright side, they have managed to go 6-8 even though: (a) they have not played well, (b) they have not hit well and (c) the starting pitching has been spotty. Their record could be a lot worse.

The Sox do need shoring up, though, and help may be on the way. John Danks' last rehab start went well and he may be in Chicago soon. I started this thread with the thought that the Dodgers may want to move Ted Lilly soon and the Sox may be a potential suitor.

Let me throw out another player who may soon be on the trade market: Brian McCann. Rookie catcher Evan Gattis has been terrific for the Braves. Gattis is playing every day and hitting clean up on a team that is 12-1. I can't imagine that the Braves want to take Gattis out of the lineup.

In the Braves' 6-3 win over K.C. tonight, lefty reliever Luis Avilan was carted off the field with hamstring injury. Lefty Jonny Venters has been on the DL with an elbow injury.

Could a Matt Thornton for Brian McCann deal be in the works?
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