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  #46  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:26 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brewski View Post
If I was looking for someone to run my business and I saw that on a resume, I would likely conclude that the individual didn't know how to run a business.
Except that JR is one of the sharpest, shrewdist business people around. The guy is a self made multimillionair.

There are ways to make money even if you aren't drawing three million fans or winning 95 games a season. I think the Sox have been doing it for years and agree with Noneck. I don't think JR and the board will like drawing say 1.8 million fans and winning 70 games, but they'll find a way to either break even or make some profit regardless.

The Sox won't be having this 118 million dollar payroll forever. I'd guess it will be down to about 98 by August 1st.

Lip
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  #47  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:56 PM
Brewski Brewski is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Except that JR is one of the sharpest, shrewdist business people around. The guy is a self made multimillionair.

There are ways to make money even if you aren't drawing three million fans or winning 95 games a season. I think the Sox have been doing it for years and agree with Noneck. I don't think JR and the board will like drawing say 1.8 million fans and winning 70 games, but they'll find a way to either break even or make some profit regardless.

The Sox won't be having this 118 million dollar payroll forever. I'd guess it will be down to about 98 by August 1st.

Lip
Lip, you're unusually optimistic today. The weather must be great where you are. Your last point's an excellent one. But it'll be the wrong $20M that goes. I just don't think Reinsy is any good at baseball. Balcor Corp. where he made his fortune wasn't in the baseball business.
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  #48  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:59 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
A $100 million untradeable payroll, one of the worst rosters in baseball, and one of the worst farm systems in baseball all point to that being incredibly unlikely.

That's planning for the future like binge drinking is planning for a test.
That 100M will be less than that after the trade deadline. Next year the only untradeables making money will be Dunn and Danks. Next years salaries could be around 70M, maybe lower. Every team in baseball makes money if they draw or not and I dont think any team has as sweet of a lease deal as the Sox do. What we all saw coming, they did also.
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  #49  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:17 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Brewski View Post
Lip, you're unusually optimistic today. The weather must be great where you are. Your last point's an excellent one. But it'll be the wrong $20M that goes. I just don't think Reinsy is any good at baseball. Balcor Corp. where he made his fortune wasn't in the baseball business.
It was 90 yesterday and is about 75 today.

Lip
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  #50  
Old 05-14-2013, 04:19 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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In the past, I worked directly for two members of the board who are contemporaries of Reinsdorf (they thrived in commercial real estate syndication as well).

These guys are great at structuring deals, and they are great at raising money - but they are not necessarly so good at managing the empires they create. Loyal to a fault in many cases.
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  #51  
Old 05-14-2013, 05:21 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Another issue to consider about the franchise is this, if they are bad, really bad over the next few seasons that is going to impact TV negotiations when the Comcast deal expires in 2016.

They'll probably take a big hit on what they could be getting from whomever revenue-wise if they were actually good.

It all factors in doesn't it?

Lip
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  #52  
Old 05-14-2013, 05:29 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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The TV deal is what baffles me. They see what teams are getting for tv contracts and have done nothing to increase its value. They have to have something up their sleeve, right?
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  #53  
Old 05-14-2013, 06:04 PM
joegraz joegraz is offline
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Originally Posted by Noneck View Post
The TV deal is what baffles me. They see what teams are getting for tv contracts and have done nothing to increase its value. They have to have something up their sleeve, right?
Hmmm....like a move? To another city who rolls out an unbelievably sweet deal, new stadium, no lease payments, restaurant, etc, etc??? Where the Sox can finally be the Number One Team in town? Where the fans will flock to see them just because they're happy to have a team???

Nah. Jerry would never do that. Would he?
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  #54  
Old 05-14-2013, 06:17 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Hmmm....like a move? To another city who rolls out an unbelievably sweet deal, new stadium, no lease payments, restaurant, etc, etc??? Where the Sox can finally be the Number One Team in town? Where the fans will flock to see them just because they're happy to have a team???

Nah. Jerry would never do that. Would he?
The market isn't the same now as it was in the mid-80s. I don't know that there is any leverage to move anywhere else, unless it's the Chicago suburbs.
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  #55  
Old 05-14-2013, 06:33 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
The market isn't the same now as it was in the mid-80s. I don't know that there is any leverage to move anywhere else, unless it's the Chicago suburbs.
I'll give you one that might be ripe for a MLB franchise, San Antonio Texas, it's one of the fastest growing places in the USA. It's now number 7 in city population and number 24 in metro area population. Some MLB is going to wind up there.
I did my USAF basic training there in 1965, we drove through there a few years ago and I couldn't believe it was the same city.
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Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 05-14-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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  #56  
Old 05-14-2013, 06:42 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by joegraz View Post
Hmmm....like a move? To another city who rolls out an unbelievably sweet deal, new stadium, no lease payments, restaurant, etc, etc??? Where the Sox can finally be the Number One Team in town? Where the fans will flock to see them just because they're happy to have a team???

Nah. Jerry would never do that. Would he?
That thought has crossed my mind more than once the last couple of years.
Say JR and company want to sell, who in Chicago would buy them?
2nd team in the city with a park that a lot of people won't go to for various reasons, another city might make a pitch.
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  #57  
Old 05-14-2013, 07:51 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
That thought has crossed my mind more than once the last couple of years.
Say JR and company want to sell, who in Chicago would buy them?
2nd team in the city with a park that a lot of people won't go to for various reasons, another city might make a pitch.
Maybe no one in Chicago would want to buy them, but somebody would. As someone pointed out anymore, there aren't as many untested viable baseball markets around anymore. I think that the idea of buying a baseball team in the third largest market in the US has to be appealing to someone. This team CAN make money, JR has made a lot of money with this team and knows the ins and outs of how to make money in baseball. If the team is struggling to draw and winning only seventy wins, you can bet that JR will find a way to make money somehow (though it might be by slashing payroll so he can get assistance).

For all the knocks on JR he is the one White Sox owner who has been able to consistently make money with this team and that is because he treats this as a business, which it is. It would be nice if a guy like Mark Cuban, a guy who wants to win AND make money buy the White Sox.
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  #58  
Old 05-14-2013, 07:54 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Maybe no one in Chicago would want to buy them, but somebody would. As someone pointed out anymore, there aren't as many untested viable baseball markets around anymore. I think that the idea of buying a baseball team in the third largest market in the US has to be appealing to someone. This team CAN make money, JR has made a lot of money with this team and knows the ins and outs of how to make money in baseball. If the team is struggling to draw and winning only seventy wins, you can bet that JR will find a way to make money somehow (though it might be by slashing payroll so he can get assistance).

For all the knocks on JR he is the one White Sox owner who has been able to consistently make money with this team and that is because he treats this as a business, which it is. It would be nice if a guy like Mark Cuban, a guy who wants to win AND make money buy the White Sox.
Read my post about San Antonio.
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  #59  
Old 05-14-2013, 08:03 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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I dont know about moving. I cant see them getting a sweeter lease than they have now.
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  #60  
Old 05-14-2013, 11:48 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
Maybe no one in Chicago would want to buy them, but somebody would. As someone pointed out anymore, there aren't as many untested viable baseball markets around anymore. I think that the idea of buying a baseball team in the third largest market in the US has to be appealing to someone. This team CAN make money, JR has made a lot of money with this team and knows the ins and outs of how to make money in baseball. If the team is struggling to draw and winning only seventy wins, you can bet that JR will find a way to make money somehow (though it might be by slashing payroll so he can get assistance).

For all the knocks on JR he is the one White Sox owner who has been able to consistently make money with this team and that is because he treats this as a business, which it is. It would be nice if a guy like Mark Cuban, a guy who wants to win AND make money buy the White Sox.
All this somewhat assumes that the Sox aren't making money as it is right now.

While fans are upset that the performance of the team on the field has been lacking in recent years, the performance on the books may very well be perfectly fine (and I think the Forbes guesstimates show that).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
I'll give you one that might be ripe for a MLB franchise, San Antonio Texas, it's one of the fastest growing places in the USA. It's now number 7 in city population and number 24 in metro area population. Some MLB is going to wind up there.
I did my USAF basic training there in 1965, we drove through there a few years ago and I couldn't believe it was the same city.
Big revenue these days lies in TV money and cable contracts. That's a pretty small TV market.
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