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  #16  
Old 05-15-2013, 02:53 AM
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RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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I for one hope that the Sox do not trade Peavy if they continue to play poorly. Pitching is very hard to find, and having Sale and Peavy gives them plenty to build on. Getting prospects doesn't guarantee anything, and the Sox haven't done all that great in evaluating talent over the last several years.
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  #17  
Old 05-15-2013, 03:22 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Are you being sarcastic? I didn't see the game, but I just caught the play-by-play and watched the scoring plays online, and the Twins announcers seemed to believe that Flowers tagged Morneau and showed on the replay where Flowers tagged him. Morneau did avoid the first tag, sliding far enough away from Flowers that he couldn't reach the plate, but it certainly looked like Flowers tagged Morneau before coming back to the plate. I don't see how you get "a new low" out of that play.

And after Flowers threw out the runner who reached on the Dunn error, I think the defense should be credited for stepping up. Buffoonery would have been Flowers throwing the ball into center on the steal attempt and allowing the runner to score from third on a passed ball. And, if you want to split hairs, that wouldn't have been a new low. Rather, it looked like there was some improvement tonight.
First of all, replays did not show that Flowers tagged Morneau. Perhaps he did. Maybe he didn't. It was a joke that Flowers allowed the play to be in dispute. Rios' throw had Morneau nailed...until Flowers looked like he missed him initially and then looked at the umpire to make the call while Morneau was busy touching the plate. Any catcher with a clue would have secured the ball in his glove with his other hand and dove at Morneau to tag him. It's basic baseball.

For whatever it's worth, Hawk and Stone did not think Flowers tagged Morneau and complimented the umpire for being in a great position to see everything. In any case, Rios' perfect throw was there in plenty of time...until Flowers failed in Catching Fundamentals 101. Even Stone, a former pitcher, knew a catcher should dive at the runner in that situation.

Second of all, Dunn's error was a season lowlight. It's pathetic that a Major League player does not take the field with a glove that works.

So, yes, a new low.
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:38 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
First of all, replays did not show that Flowers tagged Morneau. Perhaps he did. Maybe he didn't. It was a joke that Flowers allowed the play to be in dispute. Rios' throw had Morneau nailed...until Flowers looked like he missed him initially and then looked at the umpire to make the call while Morneau was busy touching the plate. Any catcher with a clue would have secured the ball in his glove with his other hand and dove at Morneau to tag him. It's basic baseball.

For whatever it's worth, Hawk and Stone did not think Flowers tagged Morneau and complimented the umpire for being in a great position to see everything. In any case, Rios' perfect throw was there in plenty of time...until Flowers failed in Catching Fundamentals 101. Even Stone, a former pitcher, knew a catcher should dive at the runner in that situation.

Second of all, Dunn's error was a season lowlight. It's pathetic that a Major League player does not take the field with a glove that works.

So, yes, a new low.
The plays you describe don't come close to being lowlights of this White Sox season in any case, unless you've been watching a different season. That would be the case even if the runner from the Dunn error (which doesn't come close to the sloppiest play I've seen at first base in the majors this season) weren't erased by the defense. Dunn isn't the first first baseman to miss a throw this season, and he won't be the last. A trait of teams with tight defenses is that they erase their mistakes, which the White Sox did tonight, even if they aren't playing tight defense this season.

As for the play at the plate, Flowers had the plate blocked, which is what many catchers are taught to do. There really is no one fundamental way to approach plays at the plate anymore because of recent collisions. But the runner can't score if the plate is blocked. Flowers had the plate blocked until after he appeared to tag Morneau and looks at the umpire for the out call. Usually when umpires appear to miss that call, it's because the fielder makes further attempts to tag the runner. Watch the replay on mlb.com with the Twins announcers. It seems very clearly a missed call. That also is what the MLB Network crew believed tonight as well when they discussed the play.

And even if those two plays did constitute exquisitely bad baseball, I don't think they bring the White Sox close to a baseball equivalent of Plan Nine from Outer Space. There was worse baseball being played in the majors tonight by the Giants in the first in Toronto, and they had the second best record in the National League coming into the game. And there was far worse baseball being played Friday and Saturday in Chicago against the Angels, if you want to talk about low points.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2013, 04:50 AM
kufram kufram is offline
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Actually, Morneau was tagged twice. Flowers brushed him on the shoulder when Morneau was past the plate and then brushed him again when Morneau scrambled back to the plate.

That doesn't mean that Flowers shouldn't have made sure of the tag instead of looking at the ump for the call.... just saying. Hardly a case for new low defensively... we've had much worse plays.
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2013, 05:18 AM
cards press box cards press box is offline
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Nice to see them win. Hope they get something going and go on a roll.

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  #21  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:36 AM
SoxFanCPA SoxFanCPA is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
First of all, replays did not show that Flowers tagged Morneau. Perhaps he did. Maybe he didn't. It was a joke that Flowers allowed the play to be in dispute. Rios' throw had Morneau nailed...until Flowers looked like he missed him initially and then looked at the umpire to make the call while Morneau was busy touching the plate. Any catcher with a clue would have secured the ball in his glove with his other hand and dove at Morneau to tag him. It's basic baseball.

For whatever it's worth, Hawk and Stone did not think Flowers tagged Morneau and complimented the umpire for being in a great position to see everything. In any case, Rios' perfect throw was there in plenty of time...until Flowers failed in Catching Fundamentals 101. Even Stone, a former pitcher, knew a catcher should dive at the runner in that situation.

Second of all, Dunn's error was a season lowlight. It's pathetic that a Major League player does not take the field with a glove that works.

So, yes, a new low.
So 2 paragraphs ripping Flowers for a blown call by the ump because he didn't tag him hard enough? There isn't much you can do when the umpire is staring at the tag but calls a guy safe anyways.

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  #22  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:54 AM
Soxzilla Soxzilla is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
First of all, replays did not show that Flowers tagged Morneau. Perhaps he did. Maybe he didn't. It was a joke that Flowers allowed the play to be in dispute. Rios' throw had Morneau nailed...until Flowers looked like he missed him initially and then looked at the umpire to make the call while Morneau was busy touching the plate. Any catcher with a clue would have secured the ball in his glove with his other hand and dove at Morneau to tag him. It's basic baseball.

For whatever it's worth, Hawk and Stone did not think Flowers tagged Morneau and complimented the umpire for being in a great position to see everything. In any case, Rios' perfect throw was there in plenty of time...until Flowers failed in Catching Fundamentals 101. Even Stone, a former pitcher, knew a catcher should dive at the runner in that situation.

Second of all, Dunn's error was a season lowlight. It's pathetic that a Major League player does not take the field with a glove that works.

So, yes, a new low.
Watch the replay again, Flowers clearly tags Morneau on the first swipe. You can see the glove bend against Morneau's arm. I mean, it is clear as day at 1:17 in the replay.

Flowers is still not a great major league baseball player, but you're wrong here.
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  #23  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:00 AM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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Originally Posted by Soxzilla View Post
Watch the replay again, Flowers clearly tags Morneau on the first swipe. You can see the glove bend against Morneau's arm. I mean, it is clear as day at 1:17 in the replay.

Flowers is still not a great major league baseball player, but you're wrong here.
I dunno about the first tag (looks to me like he missed it), but it's obvious that on the second try he got Morneau on the shoulder. Even if it's just a brush against his uniform, that's an out. The umpire blew the call, which, albeit, I can see being hard to make in the moment like that. It definitely was NOT clear to me until a few replays, which umpires in this situation don't have the benefit of (which is an expansion of instant replay I support).

But again, blown call. Fortunately, it didn't cost the Sox the game.
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  #24  
Old 05-15-2013, 08:33 AM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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Good job all around in that only Keppinger didn't have at least 1 hit.
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  #25  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:00 AM
SephClone89 SephClone89 is offline
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I'm seriously missing the part where the glove malfunction is Dunn's fault, really.
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  #26  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:16 AM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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I dunno about the first tag (looks to me like he missed it), but it's obvious that on the second try he got Morneau on the shoulder. Even if it's just a brush against his uniform, that's an out. The umpire blew the call, which, albeit, I can see being hard to make in the moment like that. It definitely was NOT clear to me until a few replays, which umpires in this situation don't have the benefit of (which is an expansion of instant replay I support).

But again, blown call. Fortunately, it didn't cost the Sox the game.
I was watching the replay on MLB.com and based on the camera angles it still seemed hard to tell whether or not Flowers tagged him. If Tyler immediately tried to apply a more secure tag, Morneau probably would've been out easily. Instead, Flowers quickly looks and appeals to the ump which was the mistake.
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  #27  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:34 AM
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  #28  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:45 AM
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I'm seriously missing the part where the glove malfunction is Dunn's fault, really.
Rule 15.18a(b) clearly states that players are only allowed to use gloves they have personally crafted
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  #29  
Old 05-15-2013, 11:20 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Good job all around in that only Keppinger didn't have at least 1 hit.
And there's a shocker!

What a horrid pickup thus far. If Beckham wasn't on the shelf, he would be Sunday lineup fodder.
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  #30  
Old 05-15-2013, 11:46 AM
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And there's a shocker!

What a horrid pickup thus far. If Beckham wasn't on the shelf, he would be Sunday lineup fodder.
I'm having Juan Pierre flashbacks with all of his groundouts and weak pop ups. This guy was a career .282 hitter before coming here. One can only hope the "back of the baseball card" comes in to play and evens things out. However, as you pointed out, he likely is headed to the bench as soon as Beckham gets healthy.
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