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  #46  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:43 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
We need a strong right hander, especially if we trade Peavy at the deadline, which we should if teams are willing to pay (as they should). Axe has done yeoman work - I'd give him the award for Sox Player of the Year at this point - but he's just one.

We need some young position players - look at the Cardinals...a constant infusion of young talent onto their team.
It is rare that teams give up much for veterans at the deadline, although the Sox have given up Miguel Olivo and Daniel Hudson in deadline deals, which fans and some in the media believed was a substantial amount at the time. For every example of a franchise-impacting deal in dumping veterans, there are numerous examples of trades that really didn't improve their team. Even with everything the Sox gave up in 1997, the only big contributors from that trade were Foulke and Howry, who could have been acquired much more cheaply in the offseason. The big prize in that 1997 trade was supposed to be Lorenzo Barceló. You aren't likely to get a lot of young talent for Jake Peavy.

Fans and people in the media get excited about dumping veterans in deadline deals, but historically there has been more value to be found in off-season deals, although there is one contract on the Sox I wouldn't mind a team picking up on waivers the way the Sox picked up Rios when he was no longer wanted in Toronto.
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  #47  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:00 PM
Foulke You Foulke You is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
It is rare that teams give up much for veterans at the deadline, although the Sox have given up Miguel Olivo and Daniel Hudson in deadline deals, which fans and some in the media believed was a substantial amount at the time. For every example of a franchise-impacting deal in dumping veterans, there are numerous examples of trades that really didn't improve their team. Even with everything the Sox gave up in 1997, the only big contributors from that trade were Foulke and Howry, who could have been acquired much more cheaply in the offseason. The big prize in that 1997 trade was supposed to be Lorenzo Barceló. You aren't likely to get a lot of young talent for Jake Peavy.

Fans and people in the media get excited about dumping veterans in deadline deals, but historically there has been more value to be found in off-season deals, although there is one contract on the Sox I wouldn't mind a team picking up on waivers the way the Sox picked up Rios when he was no longer wanted in Toronto.
Not to be nitpicky, but SS Mike Caruso was the big prize in the infamous white flag trade. He was the one player that was really sold hard to the fans after the negative fallout from the trade. For one season, it looked like he was going to be a fixture at SS but the league adjusted their defense to his slap hitting and that ended Caruso's run on the south side.
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  #48  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:07 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Foulks:

That and Caruso'a 'attitude'. He simply did not work very hard from what I've been told.

Lip
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  #49  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:29 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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It is rare that teams give up much for veterans at the deadline, although the Sox have given up Miguel Olivo and Daniel Hudson in deadline deals, which fans and some in the media believed was a substantial amount at the time. .
It happens. The Giants gave up their top prospect (and one of the top in baseball, as I recall) for a 2 month rent of Beltran. The Phillies gave 2 of their top 5 for Hunter Pence. We can get good prospects, if we negotiate.
And if we can't, just keep him. No more give-aways.

None of the prospects we got from the Giants were elite. Caruso was semi-elite, one pitcher was semi-elite and the only 2 that did anything were Foulke and Howry, as you pointed out. Trading the players we did was reasonable, but the execution was poor.
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  #50  
Old 06-10-2013, 06:42 PM
SCCWS SCCWS is offline
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[QUOTE=cards press box;3059899]Gillaspie had a great all around game today. He has been one of the bright spots of 2013.

QUOTE]

The brightness may be wearing off. His average has dropped 30 points in the last few weeks. He is 0 for June. Hopefully he is in a slump but it may also mean that major league pitching is catching up to him.
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  #51  
Old 06-11-2013, 12:27 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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It happens. The Giants gave up their top prospect (and one of the top in baseball, as I recall) for a 2 month rent of Beltran. The Phillies gave 2 of their top 5 for Hunter Pence. We can get good prospects, if we negotiate.
And if we can't, just keep him. No more give-aways.

None of the prospects we got from the Giants were elite. Caruso was semi-elite, one pitcher was semi-elite and the only 2 that did anything were Foulke and Howry, as you pointed out. Trading the players we did was reasonable, but the execution was poor.
Zack Wheeler hasn't yet pitched in the majors and has an ERA in excess of 4 in the PCL. He is the Mets top pitching prospect, and is likely to be called up from Las Vegas soon, but he isn't nearly the top pitching prospect in the PCL. The Giants hyped him, but he wasn't another Lincecum, who was untouchable in Fresno. Maybe Wheeler will develop into a solid major league starter, but he is less a can't-miss prospect Lorenzo Barcelo or even Scott Ruffcorn was.

The two minor leaguers the Giants gave up for Hunter pence is more the norm of what teams get at the trading deadline.
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  #52  
Old 06-11-2013, 12:33 AM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Zack Wheeler hasn't yet pitched in the majors and has an ERA in excess of 4 in the PCL. He is the Mets top pitching prospect, and is likely to be called up from Las Vegas soon, but he isn't nearly the top pitching prospect in the PCL. The Giants hyped him, but he wasn't another Lincecum, who was untouchable in Fresno. Maybe Wheeler will develop into a solid major league starter, but he is less a can't-miss prospect Lorenzo Barcelo or even Scott Ruffcorn was.

The two minor leaguers the Giants gave up for Hunter pence is more the norm of what teams get at the trading deadline.
Wheeler away from Vegas has been dominant.
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  #53  
Old 06-11-2013, 03:09 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Wheeler away from Vegas has been dominant.
Maybe he will turn out to be a solid starter in the National League. If he does, he will be the extreme exception to deadline trades. The trick might be finding a team that wants your veterans badly and undervalues their best prospects for some reason because teams don't trade their best prospects for veterans midseason, especially in this economic climate. The Giants wouldn't even give up Gillaspie when they traded for Pence last year, and Gillaspie was close to running out of options.

You are very unlikely to get much for Peavy at the trade deadline.
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