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View Poll Results: Is the season lost already?
Yes 176 95.14%
No 6 3.24%
No, because I can still get churros at the ballpark. 3 1.62%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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  #106  
Old 06-18-2013, 09:40 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Again, another barb at someone. Whatever.
I don't think it was a barb. It was my assessment as well. You obviously do not watch baseball outside of our team if you think one good starting pitcher, a few serviceable long men, and a couple of pen arms over the last five years is the equivalent of the output of other teams. If that's not the worst output, it's certainly bottom five.
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  #107  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:01 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by captain54 View Post
Your argument is that Buehrle, Crede, Rowand, and Garland were home grown talent that formed a "core".... and that "core" was mainly responsible for 05.. There's no way to prove that's true and no way to prove its not true, so basically it's meaningless to even bring that up unless you want to bolster whatever point it is about how awesome KW was at bringing in and developing talent..
The point was that of the '05 team, with the exception of Frank Thomas and Paul Konerko, every player on that roster was either developed by the White Sox when KW was Director of Player Development or acquired by them when he was GM. You guys want to pretend there's this laundry list of candidates out there to run the show with a more impressive resume than him, that's fine, I'm just telling you, there aren't as many as you'd like to think.
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  #108  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:11 AM
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doublem23 doublem23 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Sorry- I just don't agree with you- 13 years ago a baseball publication ranked the farm system #1 due to guys like Myette, Ginter, Borchard and Wright- not the strongest argument.
Prospects have much more value in their perception than their actual worth; if you want to build a team up through it's farm system, you have to understand that most of them will just burn out. Look at any old BA Top 100 list from the past decade. You'll be shocked at how many names you don't even recognize.
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  #109  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:27 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
I don't think it was a barb. It was my assessment as well. You obviously do not watch baseball outside of our team if you think one good starting pitcher, a few serviceable long men, and a couple of pen arms over the last five years is the equivalent of the output of other teams. If that's not the worst output, it's certainly bottom five.
Except that I don't think that. I said that was a poor output for the so-called top farm system, which leads me to believe it really wasn't the top farm system, despite its ranking.

On another note, I saw this on twitter from Dan Hayes: "Rick Hahn says #WhiteSox not at point of selling yet. Might even consider additions. Would be popular if they sell." Hahn has lost his mind if he's going to go acquire more veterans, likely past their prime, for this team.
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  #110  
Old 06-19-2013, 01:37 AM
MUsoxfan MUsoxfan is offline
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Yes. And since the Cubs series
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  #111  
Old 06-19-2013, 05:17 AM
DirtySox DirtySox is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
On another note, I saw this on twitter from Dan Hayes: "Rick Hahn says #WhiteSox not at point of selling yet. Might even consider additions. Would be popular if they sell." Hahn has lost his mind if he's going to go acquire more veterans, likely past their prime, for this team.
Lip service. What is he supposed to say?
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  #112  
Old 06-19-2013, 07:39 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
Lip service. What is he supposed to say?
Precisely. Hahn would be stupid to announce publicly, "We're selling!"

KW often made the mistake of being too open with the media, which I think may have damaged his negotiating position on several trades.
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  #113  
Old 06-19-2013, 08:23 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Except that I don't think that. I said that was a poor output for the so-called top farm system, which leads me to believe it really wasn't the top farm system, despite its ranking.
My bad, you were talking about Shueler's system then? We got plenty of players and trade-able pieces from that...
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  #114  
Old 06-19-2013, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DirtySox View Post
Lip service. What is he supposed to say?
I seriously cannot believe how many people take what the front office says to the media as truth every single time.
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  #115  
Old 06-19-2013, 12:52 PM
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JB98 JB98 is online now
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Precisely. Hahn would be stupid to announce publicly, "We're selling!"

KW often made the mistake of being too open with the media, which I think may have damaged his negotiating position on several trades.
Agreed.

I can't believe anyone would expect Hahn to announce, "This team sucks! I'm going to blow it up." I suspect that is his plan. But he's not going to say in publicly, because that would decrease the value of his movable assets.

He has put it out there that he'll stand pat if he doesn't get the offer he wants. It's all part of creating a market for the guys you want to move. The next six weeks are important for the White Sox. Not because of anything that's happening on the field, but because you want to get some useful ballplayers in return for the veterans that will be dealt.
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  #116  
Old 06-19-2013, 05:44 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by doublem23 View Post
Prospects have much more value in their perception than their actual worth; if you want to build a team up through it's farm system, you have to understand that most of them will just burn out. Look at any old BA Top 100 list from the past decade. You'll be shocked at how many names you don't even recognize.
I don't need any lectures on how farm systems work- or what % of prospects actually make it.

I think KW was great for his 2005 achievement and will always be grateful.

For 2006-2012- over that 7 year span- he delivered 1, brief, play off appearance, several <.500 teams, and in the end- left behind an aging, overpaid major league roster, and one of the worst minor league systems in MLB.

Over 17 years of overseeing the farm system in different capacities- he might have been effective at the beginning (1995-2000 when he earned the incredible #1 rating from BA you keep referencing)- but after that,not much at all.

If the WSox let him go- I would guarantee he would not be hired as the GM of any other major league team-

Not after this long term track record (farm system rankings from either BA or BP)- 8 of his last 10 years 20th or lower:

2013- 29th
2012- 30th
2011- 27th
2010- 23rd
2009- 25th
2008- 23rd
2007- 24th
2006- 14th
2005- 12th
2004- 20th
2003- 15th
2002- 9th
2001- 1st
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Last edited by TomBradley72; 06-19-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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  #117  
Old 06-19-2013, 11:45 PM
StillMissOzzie StillMissOzzie is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
Agreed.

I can't believe anyone would expect Hahn to announce, "This team sucks! I'm going to blow it up." I suspect that is his plan. But he's not going to say in publicly, because that would decrease the value of his movable assets.
I agree with part of this, I disagree with part of this. I think that anything Hahn says in public is just that - fodder for the public. He can't publicly give up on the team YET and still expect fans to come to the ballpark. But behind closed doors, it is not a matter of decreasing the value of his movable assets. Hahn knows what they are worth, as do other GMs that really are buyers. I think he probably has the word out as to who is available, without jumping at the first offer that comes in. There is plenty of time for the true contenders to rise to the top, assess their needs, and make their best offer. Their may be injuries that put a contender into a more desperate bargaining position.

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Originally Posted by StillMissOzzie
To recap, the Sox need:
Current pace 0.420 to finish 68-94 ( yay, they won't lose 100 games!)
Need a pace of 0.559 to finish 81-81 (yay, another non-losing season!)
Need a pace of 0.656 to finish 90-72 (It's gonna happen, to borrow a North side pipe dream)
Sorry for quoting myself from another thread I started, but after crunching these numbers, Hahn can publicly sit on the fence, but he has to face reality. There is no doubt in my mind that he has butts on the trading block and is waiting for the real buyers to step up.



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Last edited by StillMissOzzie; 06-19-2013 at 11:54 PM.
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  #118  
Old 06-20-2013, 11:52 AM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Hahn starting to sound a different tune?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...k_cws&c_id=cws
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  #119  
Old 06-20-2013, 12:46 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
My bad, you were talking about Shueler's system then? We got plenty of players and trade-able pieces from that...
Specifically I was talking about the 2000 system, and the players Doub listed. The output was margainal.
The idea is that when Williams was running the farm system, as he was during Sheuler's era, it was strong, so perhaps it will be now that he's back to running it (is he?).
Williams did a good job with the system through 2008 or so; while it wasn't ranked well, he was able to trade a lot of the players for better veterans. But that hasn't been happening in the last several years.
A criticism of Scheuler is that he didn't use the system well..he kept the players down there until they petered out, instead of trading them.
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  #120  
Old 06-20-2013, 10:00 PM
RadioheadRocks RadioheadRocks is offline
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Where's the "HELL YEAH" option?
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