Rebuilding the White Sox

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by Golden Sox

I very rarely watch Sports Talk Live hosted by Dave Kaplan. Kaplan is a Cubs fan and basically ignores the White Sox, so I simply don't watch the show. I was channel surfing last night and saw Steve Stone on the show and I watched him. Stone mentioned the Cubs trade with the Orioles and how good of a trade it was for the Cubs. He then mentioned how much easier it will be for Epstein /Hoyer to build the Cubs than it will be for Rick Hahn and the White Sox. Stone said that the Cubs will have more money to deal with than Hahn will. He than said that this White Sox team just doesn't draw enough fans. He said last years team was in first place and didn't draw 2 million fans. It was obvious by his comments that he's not exactly happy being here with the White Sox. That being the case maybe he should leave his job with the White Sox. I have news for him, at his age I seriously doubt that another team would hire him. But still, if he doesn't like it here I wish he would just leave, the sooner the better.

Stone pitched for both Chicago teams but in my heart I've always believed he favors the Cubs.

[rdivaldi]

Originally Posted by Golden Sox

I very rarely watch Sports Talk Live hosted by Dave Kaplan. Kaplan is a Cubs fan and basically ignores the White Sox, so I simply don't watch the show. I was channel surfing last night and saw Steve Stone on the show and I watched him. Stone mentioned the Cubs trade with the Orioles and how good of a trade it was for the Cubs. He then mentioned how much easier it will be for Epstein /Hoyer to build the Cubs than it will be for Rick Hahn and the White Sox. Stone said that the Cubs will have more money to deal with than Hahn will. He than said that this White Sox team just doesn't draw enough fans. He said last years team was in first place and didn't draw 2 million fans. It was obvious by his comments that he's not exactly happy being here with the White Sox. That being the case maybe he should leave his job with the White Sox. I have news for him, at his age I seriously doubt that another team would hire him. But still, if he doesn't like it here I wish he would just leave, the sooner the better.

But isn't he just stating the obvious?

[PalehosePlanet]

Originally Posted by Golden Sox

I very rarely watch Sports Talk Live hosted by Dave Kaplan. Kaplan is a Cubs fan and basically ignores the White Sox, so I simply don't watch the show. I was channel surfing last night and saw Steve Stone on the show and I watched him. Stone mentioned the Cubs trade with the Orioles and how good of a trade it was for the Cubs. He then mentioned how much easier it will be for Epstein /Hoyer to build the Cubs than it will be for Rick Hahn and the White Sox. Stone said that the Cubs will have more money to deal with than Hahn will. He than said that this White Sox team just doesn't draw enough fans. He said last years team was in first place and didn't draw 2 million fans. It was obvious by his comments that he's not exactly happy being here with the White Sox. That being the case maybe he should leave his job with the White Sox. I have news for him, at his age I seriously doubt that another team would hire him. But still, if he doesn't like it here I wish he would just leave, the sooner the better.

Unless he's talking about spending money on player development, he's wrong. The Cubs had more money to spend on international signings this year than us because they were the second worst team in baseball last year. MLB now uses a worst-to-first structure with the worst teams being allotted more money to spend. They were allowed to spend 4.7 mil, us 2.1.

As far as the draft goes, you can no longer spend over slot, so the Cubs have no advantage there either.

The Cubs advantage comes in having huge money to spend on free agents and/or extending their own players, but that doesn't sound like what he was talking about.

[slavko]

Originally Posted by rdivaldi

But isn't he just stating the obvious?

That's the way I read it. If he was unhappy with his job, he is well-fixed financially.

[TheVulture]

Originally Posted by SI1020

Stone pitched for both Chicago teams but in my heart I've always believed he favors the Cubs.

I doubt that's the case at this point. Stone felt the full effect of working for a hack organization.

[Golden Sox]

1) I keep reading on some of these posts that the White Sox have to completely blowup this team. I realize that the defense and baserunning has been bad this year, but still the main reason this team is in last place is simply because IT CAN'T HIT. All Hahn has to do this off season is sign 2 or 3 free agents who can hit and keep the core of this pitching staff together. Sign the Mariners K. Morales, Orioles outfielder McLouth, and Braves catcher McCann this offseason and I will take my chances with them. The 1976 White Sox were one of the worse teams in baseball. During the offseason Veeck acquired 3 good hitters (Zisk, Gamble and Soderholm) and the team won 90 games in 1977. That 1977 team had no pitching and it still won 90 games. This present White Sox team has pitching, it simply needs hitting to contend for the Playoffs in 2014.
2) I keep reading on this website how the White Sox should develop a plan like the Cubs have. Recently the Cubs have given BIG long term contracts to Castro and Edwin Jackson. As bad as the White Sox contract with Adam Dunn has been, the contracts given to Castro and Jackson aren't any better. If giving contracts to Castro and Jackson is a major part of their plan they're in deep trouble, and it simply shows me they don't know what they're doing.
3) I find it very difficult to believe that JR would be happy about blowing up this entire team. At his age, I don't think he wants to see an entire team blownup and then be in last place the next 2-3 years. If this team is blownup and has real low payrolls, that would indicate to me that JR is going to sell the team. It's easier to sell a team that doesn't have big longterm contracts on the books.

[Tragg]

The team has been poor defensively, and the bullpen is thin. It's not just the offense.


I don't know how the Sox develop an ethic of OBP in this organization, or even if they want to (there's been a lot of love for hacking over the years), but they need to.

I'd look to trade:
Peavy
Rios
Crain
Thornton
Keppinger
Listen hard on:
Reed
Quintana

Teams will be interested in Santiago because of his high Ks, and it worries me that we'll give him away because the Sox instincts have pushed him toward middle relief more than once.

[captain54]

The Home Run or Nothing philosophy has to change.. one playoff appearance and one postseason win for a big market team with some $$ to spend since 05 is not acceptable...

the bullpen needs somes serious revamping.. the defensive funk and malaise of 13' is troubling.. not to mention the mental gaffes, baserunning errors, etc.. the catching position is a huge question mark.

picking up three FA hitters and ignoring the above isn't gonna do squat

[TomBradley72]

The chemistry is also way off with this team- I think you have to rebuild around whatever young talent you have following the trade deadline etc.

Possible "young" building blocks for 2014:

Beckham
Viciedo (DH)
Gillaspie
Phegley

Sale
Santiago
Quintana
Reed
Jones
E Johnson (AAA)

That's about it-

Really bad that we don't have a single young OF to put on this list (as evidenced by Danks, Wells and Wise being on our roster)

[LITTLE NELL]

Viciedo, I'm not sure. I expected a breakout year from him in 2013 but I think he just might be the biggest disappointment of all.

[ChiSoxNationPres]

I thought I would chime in on this discussion.

A few thoughts:

1. With the depth of our starting pitching we have enough to make next year interesting. Also Danks should be fully recovered from surgery then because thats when other pitchers usually regain their former stuff (Josh Johnson, Wainwright).

2. We have contracts coming off the books and they happen to be players that are no longer helping the team (Konerko, Floyd, etc.) Also we can trade Crain and possibly now Dunn due to his recent hitting.

3. We could easily have 20-30 mil or more to spend in the offseason on free agents such as Morales, Morneau, Choo, and McCann.

4. We need to get rid of at least two of the following: Ramirez, Viciedo, Dunn, De Aza, Flowers. There is just not enough contact in the order and too many hitters with OBP sub .300.

5. I don't see why people want to trade Rios. He is unquestionably the best position player on the team who does so many different things. He is under control for next year with a club option for '15 too. His contract is a fair market value for what he gives you.

[SI1020]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

Viciedo, I'm not sure. I expected a breakout year from him in 2013 but I think he just might be the biggest disappointment of all.

Me too. I hung with him, had seen the raw potential at Birmingham. He has regressed in every possible way this year.

[Dan H]

To me, one thing is obvious. This organization doesn't have the ability or resources to rebuild this team. New ownership is the only solution. The losing will go on for years because that situation is not going to change. Why debate what this team should or shouldn't do? The same people will make the same mistakes. Jerry needs to remove himself but he won't. This team has the potential to become the Pirates of the last 20 years.

[Over By There]

I've heard a few callers on sports radio - mostly purporting to be Sox season ticket holders - saying how "Sox fans won't stand for a rebuild - we will not show up and watch a rebuilding effort." My question for these geniuses after last night is, how much worse could it really get? Our "stars" couldn't keep us from being swept for the season by the Cubs, who are close to the bottom in terms of their rebuilding process. I really don't see the difference between being a putrid team with Adam Dunn, Alex Rios et al versus being a putrid team with a bunch of kids and retreads while we rebuild.

[captain54]

Originally Posted by Over By There

I really don't see the difference between being a putrid team with Adam Dunn, Alex Rios et al versus being a putrid team with a bunch of kids and retreads while we rebuild.

In reality, the organization is backed into a corner and has no choice at this point. Payroll @ $124 M and the third worst team in MLB.