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  #16  
Old 07-03-2013, 06:17 PM
DSpivack DSpivack is offline
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Originally Posted by slavko View Post
I think you mean regressed. Digressed refers to going off-topic during an explanation of something.
He was posting what Van Schouwen said on twitter.

Also, maybe Konerko was doing an impression of Ed Farmer!
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  #17  
Old 07-03-2013, 09:43 PM
tstrike2000 tstrike2000 is offline
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Damn it, even guys we're trying to trade go on the DL at the wrong time.
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  #18  
Old 07-03-2013, 09:54 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
That way fans can complain about how Sox management is incompetent for not getting more in the Crain deal.
If you have any examples of Sox management competency- please share.
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  #19  
Old 07-04-2013, 12:27 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Congratulations to Ventura for pitching Crain into the ground.
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  #20  
Old 07-04-2013, 12:47 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
If you have any examples of Sox management competency- please share.
Such examples would be off-topic. And ignored.

GMs know Crain only has only up to 30 or 40 innings left on his contract. And he has only four saves in 10 major league seasons. I have no idea why people believe he is worth a lot in return.
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  #21  
Old 07-04-2013, 04:32 AM
SBSoxFan SBSoxFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Such examples would be off-topic.
Then would you be digressing?
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  #22  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Such examples would be off-topic. And ignored.

GMs know Crain only has only up to 30 or 40 innings left on his contract. And he has only four saves in 10 major league seasons. I have no idea why people believe he is worth a lot in return.
I know what you're saying, but I think the hope is that a team like, say, the Dodgers would over pay because the 30-40 innings Crain can give you will be in high leverage situations. Crain might not have a bunch of saves to his credit, but in the case of the Dodgers, Brandon League is holding it together with duck tape and bubblegum. Someone like Crain might be worth a shot. (Just using the Dodgers because I know they have a shaky closer situation - no idea if they are buyers, etc.)

I do, however, completely agree that Rios should bring back a much bigger haul.
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  #23  
Old 07-04-2013, 04:58 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Over By There View Post
I know what you're saying, but I think the hope is that a team like, say, the Dodgers would over pay because the 30-40 innings Crain can give you will be in high leverage situations. Crain might not have a bunch of saves to his credit, but in the case of the Dodgers, Brandon League is holding it together with duck tape and bubblegum. Someone like Crain might be worth a shot. (Just using the Dodgers because I know they have a shaky closer situation - no idea if they are buyers, etc.)

I do, however, completely agree that Rios should bring back a much bigger haul.
It's possible the Dodgers, under current management and certain all they need to do is spend money to win, might make stupid deals. Last year they went out and acquired League to be their closer or two prospects who weren't up to the level I think Sox fans are believing their team could get for Crain. (It appears the Mariners are grooming the pitcher to be a closer, but he has never started a minor league game.) League also had closer experience that Crain lacks. You also might consider that since pitchers reported to camp this year, Crain has been shut down twice.

The fact is, some of the contending teams suggested as being in the market for Crain because their closers have been inconsistent (i.e. Boston and the Dodgers) already have closers who would have more trade value than Crain. That is, if the Dodgers (and I don't see this happening) were going to be trading off veterans for prospects as the deadline approaches, League would be expected to bring a higher return than Crain.

I do not know how much Rios would bring in return. The sixe of his contract commitment rather limits the teams who would trade for him. The Sox certainly didn't give up much to get him. But maybe that was just a hyper-competent move on the part of Sox management. Not that it has always seemed that way. Trading for Rios, a team would have to believe they are getting the good Rios. His career has been full of disappointments. The day the White Sox acquired Alex Rios, they were 3 games behind the Tigers. The day he debuted with the White Sox, they began the day 2 games behind the Tigers in second place. Rios hit .199 with 3 home runs for the Sox the last week of the season. The Sox finished the season 6.5 games behind the Tigers and 7.5 games behind the Twins, who were 3 games behind the White Sox when Rios debuted in a Sox uniform. But there have been other players acquired at deadline who have been huge disappointments in stretch-run deals to contenders who later have deadline value to other contenders.

I have been impressed, though with the way Dunn has been playing for about a month. I know trading him is a bigger fantasy in white Sox nation even than the prospect of signing him as a free agent. But he is playing at a level where the White Sox might get something for him. And if they don't and he keeps playing at this level after the deadline, they could find a team that could take him off waivers the way the Sox acquired Rios.

But I wouldn't expect teams to make stupid trades to get White Sox players just because there are few examples of teams making stupid deadline trades.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2013, 07:47 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Congratulations to Ventura for pitching Crain into the ground.
Indeed. But Hahn needs to have a talk with him about it and get this to stop. It's ridiculous. I realize our pen was 4 deep at best, but we're not winning last year.
Hopefully he can take a week, get some strength back, have a couple of good outings and then get traded. Peavy too. No point in trading them hurt. Wait until after the deadline if you have to to move him.
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  #25  
Old 07-04-2013, 08:38 PM
bestkosher bestkosher is offline
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Those thinking Crain was the magic piecie might be fooling themselves. Is he good yes. No denying it but other relievers are out there for cheaper such as now the newly released Brandon Lyon which could be had for much less. Also for Robin pitching him too much what if the opposite is true and the management directed him to to show case him to the scouts more continually.
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  #26  
Old 07-05-2013, 07:40 AM
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Comparison of two relievers who were just mentioned as being more viable trade targets than Crain:

Brandon League: 3-3, 6.37 ERA, 1.62 WHIP, 13/9/K/BB
Brandon Lyon: 2-2, 4.98 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, 23/13 K/BB
Jesse Crain: 2-3, 0.74 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 46/11 K/BB

I'm not going to beat the drum for a huge return on Crain, but the fact is, with relievers, you have to catch lightning in a bottle - they could be outstanding one year but never again (see: 2005 White Sox). Just because someone like Brandon League has more career saves, it doesn't mean he's better suited to pitch in high-leverage situations down the stretch for a contending team this year. Making that argument is tantamount to the TWTW argument, IMO. Again, not saying we're going to get some huge haul back, but Crain could/should fetch more than other retreads like Brandon Lyon.
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  #27  
Old 07-05-2013, 10:12 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Over By There View Post
Comparison of two relievers who were just mentioned as being more viable trade targets than Crain:

Brandon League: 3-3, 6.37 ERA, 1.62 WHIP, 13/9/K/BB
Brandon Lyon: 2-2, 4.98 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, 23/13 K/BB
Jesse Crain: 2-3, 0.74 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 46/11 K/BB

I'm not going to beat the drum for a huge return on Crain, but the fact is, with relievers, you have to catch lightning in a bottle - they could be outstanding one year but never again (see: 2005 White Sox). Just because someone like Brandon League has more career saves, it doesn't mean he's better suited to pitch in high-leverage situations down the stretch for a contending team this year. Making that argument is tantamount to the TWTW argument, IMO. Again, not saying we're going to get some huge haul back, but Crain could/should fetch more than other retreads like Brandon Lyon.
Crain isn't a closer. He has never been used regularly as a closer. Teams acquiring relief pitchers midseason don't pay for what they have done, but what they are looking for the reliever to do for them. The Dodgers picked up League last year, not because of his stats, but what they believed he could do out of their bullpen in 2012 and beyond, and they extended him after the season through 2015, giving him a raise in the process. He's making about $7.5 million. I can't imagine the Dodgers giving up more for Crain than they game up for League. I don't think you can look at League's numbers this year or even last, look at Crain's numbers and say Crain is worth more because he has better stats.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the White Sox will get a lot when they trade Crain. But looking at what teams can expect to get from him and considering non-closing relief is not a scarce commodity, I don't expect Crain will bring what a lot of fans seem to be arguing he has to bring.

In the end, what the White Sox get for him will be what they can get for him. I don't believe it will be as much as many fans believe they should, but I do believe fans will complain that White Sox management is incompetent because they should have made a better trade.
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