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  #31  
Old 07-10-2013, 03:40 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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No way do I want McDonough anywhere near the Sox.

I know he's a Sox fan, but our club has a unique flavor among Chicago teams, and to turn the keys over would make us another bland overhyped club in a forest of them. He's already done that to the Hawks as far as I'm concerned, where just reversing Bill Wirtz's policies and winning would have changed the culture and maintained what the Hawks used to be.

I want new ownership cut from the cloth of Arte Moreno and have him bring in his own people, not some Cub retread wallpapering over the cracks to make the Sox bland and more marketable.
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  #32  
Old 07-10-2013, 03:59 PM
soltrain21 soltrain21 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
No way do I want McDonough anywhere near the Sox.

I know he's a Sox fan, but our club has a unique flavor among Chicago teams, and to turn the keys over would make us another bland overhyped club in a forest of them. He's already done that to the Hawks as far as I'm concerned, where just reversing Bill Wirtz's policies and winning would have changed the culture and maintained what the Hawks used to be.

I want new ownership cut from the cloth of Arte Moreno and have him bring in his own people, not some Cub retread wallpapering over the cracks to make the Sox bland and more marketable.
What unique flavor do we have? Because I think we are super bland at this point.
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  #33  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:02 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
No way do I want McDonough anywhere near the Sox.

I know he's a Sox fan, but our club has a unique flavor among Chicago teams, and to turn the keys over would make us another bland overhyped club in a forest of them. He's already done that to the Hawks as far as I'm concerned, where just reversing Bill Wirtz's policies and winning would have changed the culture and maintained what the Hawks used to be.

I want new ownership cut from the cloth of Arte Moreno and have him bring in his own people, not some Cub retread wallpapering over the cracks to make the Sox bland and more marketable.
Unique flavor as in don't draw, a new marketing slogan every year, and a ballpark experience that is not exactly friendly at times? If that's your definition of unique then I want McDonough's footprints all over the Sox. And what exactly is bland about the Hawks and Cubs?
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  #34  
Old 07-10-2013, 05:23 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
No way do I want McDonough anywhere near the Sox.

I know he's a Sox fan, but our club has a unique flavor among Chicago teams, and to turn the keys over would make us another bland overhyped club in a forest of them. He's already done that to the Hawks as far as I'm concerned, where just reversing Bill Wirtz's policies and winning would have changed the culture and maintained what the Hawks used to be.

I want new ownership cut from the cloth of Arte Moreno and have him bring in his own people, not some Cub retread wallpapering over the cracks to make the Sox bland and more marketable.
I just do not understand this attitude. I don't want bland announcers, I don't want bland marketing, I don't want a bland experience.

Honestly - Please explain what, exactly, you would like to see the White Sox evolve into?
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  #35  
Old 07-10-2013, 07:22 PM
Vernam Vernam is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
No way do I want McDonough anywhere near the Sox.

I know he's a Sox fan, but our club has a unique flavor among Chicago teams, and to turn the keys over would make us another bland overhyped club in a forest of them. He's already done that to the Hawks as far as I'm concerned, where just reversing Bill Wirtz's policies and winning would have changed the culture and maintained what the Hawks used to be.

I want new ownership cut from the cloth of Arte Moreno and have him bring in his own people, not some Cub retread wallpapering over the cracks to make the Sox bland and more marketable.
Yeah, I'd totally hate it if the Sox were like the Hawks. That would be awful.

If the Hawks are "over-hyped" at this point, it's because of the two championships. It's silly to fault them for attention that was earned that way. No amount of PR could've made a dent in their public profile in comparison to a pair of Cups. And anyone who thinks John McDonough's only expertise is in PR just isn't paying attention or doesn't know what constitutes effective management (or PR). That might be his background, but he transcended it long ago, for those who think PR is a dirty word. Or, uh, acronym.

And I see zero chance that he'd join the Sox, unfortunately.
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  #36  
Old 07-11-2013, 09:07 AM
DeadMoney DeadMoney is offline
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Yeah, I'd totally hate it if the Sox were like the Hawks. That would be awful.

If the Hawks are "over-hyped" at this point, it's because of the two championships. It's silly to fault them for attention that was earned that way. No amount of PR could've made a dent in their public profile in comparison to a pair of Cups. And anyone who thinks John McDonough's only expertise is in PR just isn't paying attention or doesn't know what constitutes effective management (or PR). That might be his background, but he transcended it long ago, for those who think PR is a dirty word. Or, uh, acronym.

And I see zero chance that he'd join the Sox, unfortunately.
While I do agree that I think there's zero chance he'd join the Sox, I would still welcome the idea with open arms.

This team is in desperate need of a PR make-over. They do good things from time-to-time, and there's no denying that (whether it be volunteer corps, the double duty classic, things in the community, etc). But, then again MOST/ALL teams do stuff like that. What I think is one of their biggest failings over the past 15 years was allowing the narrative to continue that the park is in a terrible neighborhood in the middle of the ghetto. They've done NOTHING to dispute it, while media member after media member (from local to national) has one-by-one continued to bash THEIR COMMUNITY (it's almost like the Sox are embarrassed to be a part of Armour Square/Bridgeport, at times).

Let's face it, every year an influx of college grads from the Midwest move to Chicago to start their careers. Most have disposable income and plenty of free time. From living in Wrigleyville for 2+ years now and meeting many of those people, I can tell you that many people that I've met are almost always under the impression that going to games at the Cell is dangerous. Why the Sox have never fought back at that narrative is beyond me. Going to games in Armour Square/Bridgeport is no less dangerous than going to games in Wrigleyville. I know Armour Square/Bridgeport the neighborhood doesn't provide the draw like Wrigleyville does, that's not my point. It's that the Sox themselves have never done anything to try to eliminate the deterrents that are causing people not to come to the park and this is just one glaring example.
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  #37  
Old 07-11-2013, 09:14 AM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by KingXerxes View Post
I just do not understand this attitude. I don't want bland announcers, I don't want bland marketing, I don't want a bland experience.

Honestly - Please explain what, exactly, you would like to see the White Sox evolve into?
The Angels. Becoming part of the conversation and not just the secondary team in town.

New ownership is what's needed. Then changes, many changes... I didn't say that I wanted things to stay as they are, just that the team's traditions and unique fanbase to stay the same under progressive (Arte Moreno-like) ownership that realizes that the Sox are a big market club, and should act like one; the product on the field is what draws and how fans are treated in the park is why they come back.

Do we really want the Sox to become like the Hawks and Cubs? A bunch of fair weather fans who care more about the "scene" than the actual baseball? I sure don't.

There are more efficient and successful ways to fill the park and attract fans other than bringing in the Chads, Trixies and hangers-on with vapid marketing and turning the game day experience into a circus.
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  #38  
Old 07-11-2013, 09:53 AM
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skobabe8 skobabe8 is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
The Angels. Becoming part of the conversation and not just the secondary team in town.

New ownership is what's needed. Then changes, many changes... I didn't say that I wanted things to stay as they are, just that the team's traditions and unique fanbase to stay the same under progressive (Arte Moreno-like) ownership that realizes that the Sox are a big market club, and should act like one; the product on the field is what draws and how fans are treated in the park is why they come back.

Do we really want the Sox to become like the Hawks and Cubs? A bunch of fair weather fans who care more about the "scene" than the actual baseball? I sure don't.

There are more efficient and successful ways to fill the park and attract fans other than bringing in the Chads, Trixies and hangers-on with vapid marketing and turning the game day experience into a circus.
You're in the extreme minority.
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  #39  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:37 AM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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Then changes, many changes... I didn't say that I wanted things to stay as they are, just that the team's traditions and unique fanbase to stay the same..........
The following are serious questions, because I honestly do not understand - specifically - what you'd like to see. I agree new ownership would be great, but I really don't see it happening anytime soon.

What traditions would you like to see saved, resurrected or augmented?

What is unique about the White Sox fanbase (other than being White Sox fans)?

What would you eliminate from the White Sox's present modus operandi?
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  #40  
Old 07-11-2013, 12:10 PM
russ99 russ99 is offline
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Originally Posted by KingXerxes View Post
The following are serious questions, because I honestly do not understand - specifically - what you'd like to see. I agree new ownership would be great, but I really don't see it happening anytime soon.

What traditions would you like to see saved, resurrected or augmented?

What is unique about the White Sox fanbase (other than being White Sox fans)?

What would you eliminate from the White Sox's present modus operandi?
As for it not happening anytime soon, who knows. Jerry may not want to wait out a long rebuilding process. He's quoted on wanting the family to sell when he's passed on, so why wait?

As for the other questions, the Angels would be a good club to emulate:

Owner willing to spend on all aspects of the franchise to push the club to an equal footing to big-time NL franchise in town.

Market the team and the experience, focusing on the core fanbase and attracting families, not marketing to fleeting fans who go away when things don't go as planned.

Do you think the Angels could have the incomes they're pulling in with the new TV deal had they not been bold, proactive and meekly succumbed to the Dodgers owning the market for the forseeable future?

As for specific policies the Sox employ that should be changed let's say:

Spend on the draft, in player development and scouting, and basically replace the entire staff in place for those functions now, many of which owe their jobs to being "Sox family" than actual performance.

Focus on regular fans over corporate clients, replace the marketing team, re-hire an agency and let professionals do their jobs. Take on the Cubs, advertise fan experience and that it's fun and safe to come to the park. Figure out some way to get the fans more involved in the community, and break down the barriers that the Sox experience ends at the highway and railroad tracks.

Spend to get the best broadcasting teams available, as they do in other cities. They are part of the overall marketing effort, so they should be invested in similarly.

Invest in the park with more fan-friendly areas, build the deck in right field, and build more things to do around the park. Lose some of the corporate-only areas, or find ways to mix in regular fans to those spaces. Less precanned music, more organ music. Better presentation on scoreboards pre-game and during the game.

Tickets are the same prices for all games, and consistent ticketing (same seats, etc.) and incentives for fans going to multiple games. Leverage assets to take ticketing away from Ticketmaster, and partner with provider to have Sox ticketing, not the other way around, like they do on the other side of town. Season ticket holders should be treated as best customers, not looked down upon or used as a cash cow.

Most of all build a solid team and spend like other big market teams do. There's no reason the Sox shouldn't spend $120M+ on the club if contending. No more "50 cents" and lame excuses to not build the best club they can with the resources they have. No more blaming fans for poor attendance or holding a carrot that they'll spend more if fans show up. It's proven it should be the other way around.

Hire a professional manager and coaching staff, end the retread former player hires and the good old boy network, and have all coaches report to the manager, not higher up as some either do or used to do.

--

If you've gone to Sox games the last 10 years, you should know the fanbase and traditions well enough. Obviously there probably needs to be some changes there too, but they shouldn't sacrifice the hardcore fans and families to make the Sox experience more marketable to casual fans.

Last edited by russ99; 07-11-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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  #41  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:20 PM
DeadMoney DeadMoney is offline
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Originally Posted by russ99 View Post
As for it not happening anytime soon, who knows. Jerry may not want to wait out a long rebuilding process. He's quoted on wanting the family to sell when he's passed on, so why wait?

As for the other questions, the Angels would be a good club to emulate:

Owner willing to spend on all aspects of the franchise to push the club to an equal footing to big-time NL franchise in town.

Market the team and the experience, focusing on the core fanbase and attracting families, not marketing to fleeting fans who go away when things don't go as planned.

Do you think the Angels could have the incomes they're pulling in with the new TV deal had they not been bold, proactive and meekly succumbed to the Dodgers owning the market for the forseeable future?

As for specific policies the Sox employ that should be changed let's say:

Spend on the draft, in player development and scouting, and basically replace the entire staff in place for those functions now, many of which owe their jobs to being "Sox family" than actual performance.

Focus on regular fans over corporate clients, replace the marketing team, re-hire an agency and let professionals do their jobs. Take on the Cubs, advertise fan experience and that it's fun and safe to come to the park. Figure out some way to get the fans more involved in the community, and break down the barriers that the Sox experience ends at the highway and railroad tracks.

Spend to get the best broadcasting teams available, as they do in other cities. They are part of the overall marketing effort, so they should be invested in similarly.

Invest in the park with more fan-friendly areas, build the deck in right field, and build more things to do around the park. Lose some of the corporate-only areas, or find ways to mix in regular fans to those spaces. Less precanned music, more organ music. Better presentation on scoreboards pre-game and during the game.

Tickets are the same prices for all games, and consistent ticketing (same seats, etc.) and incentives for fans going to multiple games. Leverage assets to take ticketing away from Ticketmaster, and partner with provider to have Sox ticketing, not the other way around, like they do on the other side of town. Season ticket holders should be treated as best customers, not looked down upon or used as a cash cow.

Most of all build a solid team and spend like other big market teams do. There's no reason the Sox shouldn't spend $120M+ on the club if contending. No more "50 cents" and lame excuses to not build the best club they can with the resources they have. No more blaming fans for poor attendance or holding a carrot that they'll spend more if fans show up. It's proven it should be the other way around.

Hire a professional manager and coaching staff, end the retread former player hires and the good old boy network, and have all coaches report to the manager, not higher up as some either do or used to do.

--

If you've gone to Sox games the last 10 years, you should know the fanbase and traditions well enough. Obviously there probably needs to be some changes there too, but they shouldn't sacrifice the hardcore fans and families to make the Sox experience more marketable to casual fans.
Everything you said was spot on, but I bolded a few points that I'd like to expand upon.

1. Yes, yes, yes. The team has been lazy and has refused to take on the Cubs (or the media narrative as I suggested earlier) and has merely settled in as second fiddle in the city. LA Angels are a great example of how to strive for - and be - more.

2. I was in SF this year and the presentation of everything was flawless there (crisp, smooth transitions, fun, etc.). It is something the Blackhawks also do tremendously well (hockey is a bit easier with "scheduled" and timed breaks, but it's something all teams should strive for -- excellence both ON and OFF the field).

3. This has always bugged me (more so now than in the past due in part to being in a group who has a full season plan). Why do the Sox not do more for the STHs? It's crazy... They should be kissing these people's asses up-and-down, in-and-out and they just don't seem to bother to change anything or even try to make it better.
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  #42  
Old 07-11-2013, 01:50 PM
KingXerxes KingXerxes is offline
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[QUOTE=russ99;3068747]Market the team and the experience, focusing on the core fanbase and attracting families, not marketing to fleeting fans who go away when things don't go as planned. Agreed - but then you're going to have Chad, Trixie and the kids out there. I have no problem with that, but you seemed to.

Spend to get the best broadcasting teams available, as they do in other cities. They are part of the overall marketing effort, so they should be invested in similarly. I could not agree more.

Tickets are the same prices for all games, and consistent ticketing (same seats, etc.) and incentives for fans going to multiple games. Leverage assets to take ticketing away from Ticketmaster, and partner with provider to have Sox ticketing, not the other way around, like they do on the other side of town. Season ticket holders should be treated as best customers, not looked down upon or used as a cash cow. Agreed - with reduced pricing particularly if you're looking to attract families.

Most of all build a solid team and spend like other big market teams do. There's no reason the Sox shouldn't spend $120M+ on the club if contending. No more "50 cents" and lame excuses to not build the best club they can with the resources they have. No more blaming fans for poor attendance or holding a carrot that they'll spend more if fans show up. It's proven it should be the other way around. Easier said than done.

Hire a professional manager and coaching staff, end the retread former player hires and the good old boy network, and have all coaches report to the manager, not higher up as some either do or used to do. Agreed.

--

If you've gone to Sox games the last 10 years, you should know the fanbase and traditions well enough. Obviously there probably needs to be some changes there too, but they shouldn't sacrifice the hardcore fans and families to make the Sox experience more marketable to casual fans. Here we disagree. 10 years does not a tradition make. The are in a big hole relative to the traditional aspects of the club. [/QUOTE]

I think we're pretty much on the same page - see comments above.
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  #43  
Old 07-11-2013, 04:49 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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"Market the team and the experience, focusing on the core fanbase and attracting families, not marketing to fleeting fans who go away when things don't go as planned."

This couldn't possibly be more short-sighted. Part of the problem is that the Sox have a small(er) fan base and are far less popular than the Cubs. The Sox need to work their tails off to expand it and ditch this perception that the park is filled with Ligues. They need to make it the Cell a destination for die-hard and casual fans a like. Hopefully, the fan base grows to the point where they still draw even when things don't go well. They're in NO position to micro-market to a dwindling, fickle, fan base. They need to do whatever it takes to make the team/ballpark experience one that appeals to everyone (or most everyone).

Again, why do you care so much about the "Chads and Trixies" (whatever that means) or hangers on? Stop worrying so much about everyone else and be happy when the Cell draws a big crowd. Who knows? That 'bro in the cargo shorts and ironic 80s Sox jersey that you probably dismiss as a "Chad" might be a well-informed, life-long, fan.
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  #44  
Old 07-11-2013, 06:15 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Mr. Lucky had as much to do with the Cubs and Hawks success as you and me. Pass.
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