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  #61  
Old 07-13-2013, 12:57 PM
Fastball23 Fastball23 is offline
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Nick Cafardo@nickcafardo1m
The ChiSox got a very athletic player in OF Brandon Jacobs for 36-year-old Matt Thornton. He's one of Dwight Evans' favorite young players.

Beginning to like this trade a lot more.. Evans was an amazing player.
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  #62  
Old 07-13-2013, 12:57 PM
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Sure, if he's not pitching. So just hold him til next year, if that's the case. There was no point in holding Thornton until next year; now we could have held him for a few weeks, which, plus the emails, suggests to me we were salary dumping him. But it would be an outrage to salary dump Peavy.

I think Jacobs is a decent pickup anyway. He shares the profile of a lot of our recent high round draft choices, he's young, he's not washed out and he has identifiable baseball skills. He may not amount to anything, but he isn't a Zack Stewart either.
It would. I don't have a problem with them dumping Thornton's salary because he is overpaid. At this point in his career, Thornton is a situational pitcher, but he's being paid like a closer -- which he never was even in his prime. Nothing wrong with getting that contract outta here.

Peavy, in contrast, is a No. 2 starter with a No. 2 starter's contract. He's making some bucks, sure, but he produces when he's on the field. The injury complicates matters, but at least it's not an arm injury. If Hahn can't get real value for Peavy now, he should hold him until the offseason. If Peavy comes back healthy and throws well the second half, trade him in December.
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  #63  
Old 07-13-2013, 01:54 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I'm OK with this trade- between Thornton's age, contract and his performance this year- anything of value is acceptable to me.

Our overall outfield talent in the minors is a disaster- so sounds like we've improved the situation by addinng this guy. To be 22 and spend most of the season in A ball isn't a good sign- but since our minor league system is in such poor shape- this is still an improvement.
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  #64  
Old 07-13-2013, 02:07 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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It would. I don't have a problem with them dumping Thornton's salary because he is overpaid. At this point in his career, Thornton is a situational pitcher, but he's being paid like a closer -- which he never was even in his prime. Nothing wrong with getting that contract outta here.

Peavy, in contrast, is a No. 2 starter with a No. 2 starter's contract. He's making some bucks, sure, but he produces when he's on the field. The injury complicates matters, but at least it's not an arm injury. If Hahn can't get real value for Peavy now, he should hold him until the offseason. If Peavy comes back healthy and throws well the second half, trade him in December.
The problem with this analysis, and pretty much what everyone thinks is fair value for Peavy, is that while he SHOULD give you no. 2 starter value, he most certainly will not. The sad truth is that in all the years Peavy's been here, he's only pitched that way last year. Even before he was injured this year, he was pitching like a 3-4 guy. What's his ERA? Mid fours? Opponents hitting like .250 off of him? That's not very good. We needed Peavy healthy and pitching like he's got the talent to. Recent history is not in our favor.
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  #65  
Old 07-13-2013, 02:46 PM
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The problem with this analysis, and pretty much what everyone thinks is fair value for Peavy, is that while he SHOULD give you no. 2 starter value, he most certainly will not. The sad truth is that in all the years Peavy's been here, he's only pitched that way last year. Even before he was injured this year, he was pitching like a 3-4 guy. What's his ERA? Mid fours? Opponents hitting like .250 off of him? That's not very good. We needed Peavy healthy and pitching like he's got the talent to. Recent history is not in our favor.
The problem with this analysis is that you are cherry-picking stats.

Through his first nine starts this year, Peavy was 6-2 with a 2.97 ERA. Is that not No. 2 starter material? I believe it is.

His last two starts, during which he went to the mound injured, he was 0-2 with an 8.53 ERA. Twelve of the 32 earned runs he's allowed this year were in his last two starts before he went on the disabled list. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Peavy pitched well all of last season and his first nine starts of this year before he got hurt. Then, he had two awful outings.

Peavy has 66 Ks in 67 IP this year. He's a top-of-the-rotation starter who still misses bats regularly.

I completely disagree with you. He has been pitching like a No. 2 starter for quite some time when healthy. The only question mark with Jake is his health. His performance on the mound is hardly an issue.
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  #66  
Old 07-13-2013, 03:06 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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The problem with this analysis is that you are cherry-picking stats.

Through his first nine starts this year, Peavy was 6-2 with a 2.97 ERA. Is that not No. 2 starter material? I believe it is.

His last two starts, during which he went to the mound injured, he was 0-2 with an 8.53 ERA. Twelve of the 32 earned runs he's allowed this year were in his last two starts before he went on the disabled list. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Peavy pitched well all of last season and his first nine starts of this year before he got hurt. Then, he had two awful outings.

Peavy has 66 Ks in 67 IP this year. He's a top-of-the-rotation starter who still misses bats regularly.

I completely disagree with you. He has been pitching like a No. 2 starter for quite some time when healthy. The only question mark with Jake is his health. His performance on the mound is hardly an issue.
That's the issue though. He hasn't shown anything that with the Sox that suggests he can stay healthy for the rest of this contract. He has been healthy all season once in the past 5 years. Other teams know that too and will bid accordingly.
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  #67  
Old 07-13-2013, 04:05 PM
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RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
The problem with this analysis is that you are cherry-picking stats.

Through his first nine starts this year, Peavy was 6-2 with a 2.97 ERA. Is that not No. 2 starter material? I believe it is.

His last two starts, during which he went to the mound injured, he was 0-2 with an 8.53 ERA. Twelve of the 32 earned runs he's allowed this year were in his last two starts before he went on the disabled list. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Peavy pitched well all of last season and his first nine starts of this year before he got hurt. Then, he had two awful outings.

Peavy has 66 Ks in 67 IP this year. He's a top-of-the-rotation starter who still misses bats regularly.

I completely disagree with you. He has been pitching like a No. 2 starter for quite some time when healthy. The only question mark with Jake is his health. His performance on the mound is hardly an issue.
Amen. It is so good to hear and see positive feedback. The Sox traded Thornton and got much more for him at this stage of his career than I thought they would. Peavy on a lot of teams would be a No 1 pitcher and is a fierce competeter; which I'm sure a lot of teams already know. If they trade him it is ludacris to think Hahn would not get fair value.
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  #68  
Old 07-13-2013, 05:23 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Can't argue with finding a taker for a situational lefty who's being paid as a closer. Donnie Veal can LOOGY in his place. Good business decision (no objection to calling it a salary dump) and got a middling prospect in the bargain.

No longer dreading him gas-canning the 7th or 8th.

I'd do it every day and twice on Sunday.
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  #69  
Old 07-13-2013, 06:45 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Amen. It is so good to hear and see positive feedback. The Sox traded Thornton and got much more for him at this stage of his career than I thought they would. Peavy on a lot of teams would be a No 1 pitcher and is a fierce competeter; which I'm sure a lot of teams already know. If they trade him it is ludacris to think Hahn would not get fair value.
Unless you meant to compare him to the rapper, I think the word you were looking for is "ludicrous".
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  #70  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:30 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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I read somewhere today that Jacobs is Rule 5 eligible next year. I didn't realize that. That's a problem.
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  #71  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:38 PM
Mr. Jinx Mr. Jinx is offline
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I read somewhere today that Jacobs is Rule 5 eligible next year. I didn't realize that. That's a problem.
Not really. This was a straight salary dump. The guy they got back won't ever sniff the majors.
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  #72  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:45 PM
The Immigrant The Immigrant is offline
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I read somewhere today that Jacobs is Rule 5 eligible next year. I didn't realize that. That's a problem.
Not if he's on the 40 man roster. There should be plenty of room once the fire sale is done.
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  #73  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:57 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Not if he's on the 40 man roster. There should be plenty of room once the fire sale is done.
Yea, but you can't put raw prospects on the 40 man. You can, but it's not the best use. On the other hand, as you said, there would be plenty of room.

The guy is actually hitting better as of late. He's a boom/bust, but he has some skills.
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  #74  
Old 07-13-2013, 08:42 PM
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That's the issue though. He hasn't shown anything that with the Sox that suggests he can stay healthy for the rest of this contract. He has been healthy all season once in the past 5 years. Other teams know that too and will bid accordingly.
If teams aren't going to offer the Sox a top prospect for Peavy, then they can stick it. The Sox can simply hold on to Peavy and let him finish out his contract then. Even if next year is a transitional year, there will still be 162 big-league games played, and somebody has to pitch.

Peavy is too good a pitcher to just give away. There's nothing that says he must be traded.
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  #75  
Old 07-13-2013, 08:59 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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If teams aren't going to offer the Sox a top prospect for Peavy, then they can stick it. The Sox can simply hold on to Peavy and let him finish out his contract then. Even if next year is a transitional year, there will still be 162 big-league games played, and somebody has to pitch.

Peavy is too good a pitcher to just give away. There's nothing that says he must be traded.
Other teams would call that bet, most likely. The best thing that could happen is Peavy comes back this month and doesn't get traded, but rather gets to pitch into August and pitches well, then gets claimed by a team with good prospects that is desperate to make a deal. It's not a likely scenerio, but plausable. After the season, you're looking at a year of a guy that's been hurt for significant time 4 of 5 years. I know what you think he's worth and why, but I think emotions are a part of that. When he's on, he's phenomenal. But this isn't a case where there's a hitch that a team thinks it can correct. Whether or not he's that Peavy for the next team is a total crapshoot.
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