Rebuilding the White Sox

[Golden Sox]

In Sundays Tribune Phil Rogers indicates that Texas might be a fit for Rios and Adam Dunn. I'm hoping Rogers is right this time about something. If Texas wants Dunn,(which I find hard to believe) they can have him. As long as they pick up most of his contract and and even if we only get prospects for him, that's fine with me. The 2014 White Sox team will start looking better without Dunn on it.

[SoxSpeed22]

Texas has to know that they will be in a lot of trouble if Cruz gets suspended, so that might swing leverage in our favor, Texas has some nice prospects to work with, they will have to roll the dice at some point, since the A's are poised to take over that division.

[cards press box]

Originally Posted by Dan H

To me, one thing is obvious. This organization doesn't have the ability or resources to rebuild this team. New ownership is the only solution. The losing will go on for years because that situation is not going to change. Why debate what this team should or shouldn't do? The same people will make the same mistakes. Jerry needs to remove himself but he won't. This team has the potential to become the Pirates of the last 20 years.

I just can't agree with this, as the Sox recent history does not justify such pessimism. In the 13 seasons since 2000, the Sox have had exactly three losing seasons and in two of them, the Sox went 79-83. Yes, the Sox will have a losing season this season but there is really no legitimate basis for predicting that under the Hahn regime, "the losing will go on for years."

The Sox have four lefty starters (Sale, Danks, Quintana and Santiago) on the big league roster and a righty starter in AAA (Erik Johnson) that form a strong starting quintet going forward. That doesn't include Jake Peavy who might stick around but most likely will be dealt for prospects in the next couple of weeks. If you can pitch, you can contend.

And with Beckham, Phelgley, Viciedo and Gillaspie, the Sox do have some young position players to build around.

I'm sorry but I am not ready to go "Eeyore" on the Sox future.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by cards press box

I just can't agree with this, as the Sox recent history does not justify such pessimism. In the 13 seasons since 2000, the Sox have had exactly three losing seasons and in two of them, the Sox went 79-83. Yes, the Sox will have a losing season this season but there is really no legitimate basis for predicting that under the Hahn regime, "the losing will go on for years."

The Sox have four lefty starters (Sale, Danks, Quintana and Santiago) on the big league roster and a righty starter in AAA (Erik Johnson) that form a strong starting quintet going forward. That doesn't include Jake Peavy who might stick around but most likely will be dealt for prospects in the next couple of weeks. If you can pitch, you can contend.

And with Beckham, Phelgley, Viciedo and Gillaspie, the Sox do have some young position players to build around.

I'm sorry but I am not ready to go "Eeyore" on the Sox future.

I agreed with you up to that point. But none of those four players are necessarily anyone you want to build around. Viciedo sucks, Beckham has struggled for the last few years before looking good thus far this season, the jury remains out on Phegley but likely he isn't anything great (decent but not great hitter, poor defense seems to have been the best scouting projections for him). Conor Gillaspie has been surprisingly decent but still a well below-average hitter, and I don't know that I want him as the projected starter next season. Maybe Beckham has turned things around this season from his past few years of struggles, but other than that the Sox have zero young position players from whom to build around.

[blandman]

Originally Posted by cards press box

I just can't agree with this, as the Sox recent history does not justify such pessimism. In the 13 seasons since 2000, the Sox have had exactly three losing seasons and in two of them, the Sox went 79-83. Yes, the Sox will have a losing season this season but there is really no legitimate basis for predicting that under the Hahn regime, "the losing will go on for years."

The Sox have four lefty starters (Sale, Danks, Quintana and Santiago) on the big league roster and a righty starter in AAA (Erik Johnson) that form a strong starting quintet going forward. That doesn't include Jake Peavy who might stick around but most likely will be dealt for prospects in the next couple of weeks. If you can pitch, you can contend.

And with Beckham, Phelgley, Viciedo and Gillaspie, the Sox do have some young position players to build around.

I'm sorry but I am not ready to go "Eeyore" on the Sox future.

I'd agree with you, but then I'd have to ignore the fact that the run you're talking about was built up by a shrewd GM who built up a great minor league system over the course of several bad seasons that produced several core players as well as trade chips, all of which do not currently exist.

[amsteel]

What role in the organization will the Sox give Ventura when his contract isn't renewed? Because there's no way he gets cut loose entirely and I don't think anyone else would hire him as a manager.

[Tragg]

Originally Posted by amsteel

What role in the organization will the Sox give Ventura when his contract isn't renewed? Because there's no way he gets cut loose entirely and I don't think anyone else would hire him as a manager.

Thus the problem with hiring family. It's one thing to fire them when they do something wrong/break rules, but it's tougher when you're just bad at your job, like Ventura is.

[Noneck]

Originally Posted by amsteel

What role in the organization will the Sox give Ventura when his contract isn't renewed? Because there's no way he gets cut loose entirely and I don't think anyone else would hire him as a manager.

Maybe he wants nothing to do with the Sox or maybe even baseball when that happens. This isnt a Greg Walker who didnt make much in his playing days and actually needs a job. He might be just like BlackJack is now.

[Golden Sox]

The 2013 White Sox are in last place simply because this team can't hit. I read on one of these posts that the White Sox have scored 3 or less runs in 70% of there games. They're missing 2/3 hitters to contend. There are a number of ways to correct this problem. 1) Bring up some hitters from the Minor Leagues. There doesn't appear to be anybody down in the farms who can help the team next year. 2) Trade somebody from the bullpen for a good everyday hitter. The only person who can bring back a good hitter would be Addison Reed. I don't know if the White Sox want to do that. 3) Trade one/some of the starting pitchers who can bring back some hitters. It doesn't make any sense to me to trade your best pitchers. The only person they can plug into the rotation next season from the minors is Johnson. 4) Sign a couple of free agents who can hit. I don't mean high price agents like Robinson Cano. Free agents who are cheaper like K. Morales and Nate Mclouth would fit into the White Sox lineup quite nicely. I think this is the way to go. Add a few hitters into this lineup and keep our starting pitching staff together would put us back in the Playoff hunt for 2014. All of the above led me to call Chris Rongey on the postgame show last night after the first game. When I brought up the idea of signing some free agents this off season his response was he would be surprised if the White Sox would sign any free agents this off season. He claimed it wouldn't help attendance much next season if they signed some players. I would like to think Rongey knows things about the White Sox organization that most of us don't know. If he claims the White Sox are not going to sign any free agents after this season, he probably has already been told that by somebody in the White Sox organization. And if that's the case, I'm worried about the 2014 season already.

[A. Cavatica]

Originally Posted by Golden Sox

The 2013 White Sox are in last place simply because this team can't hit. I read on one of these posts that the White Sox have scored 3 or less runs in 70% of there games. They're missing 2/3 hitters to contend. There are a number of ways to correct this problem. 1) Bring up some hitters from the Minor Leagues. There doesn't appear to be anybody down in the farms who can help the team next year. 2) Trade somebody from the bullpen for a good everyday hitter. The only person who can bring back a good hitter would be Addison Reed. I don't know if the White Sox want to do that. 3) Trade one/some of the starting pitchers who can bring back some hitters. It doesn't make any sense to me to trade your best pitchers. The only person they can plug into the rotation next season from the minors is Johnson. 4) Sign a couple of free agents who can hit. I don't mean high price agents like Robinson Cano. Free agents who are cheaper like K. Morales and Nate Mclouth would fit into the White Sox lineup quite nicely. I think this is the way to go. Add a few hitters into this lineup and keep our starting pitching staff together would put us back in the Playoff hunt for 2014. All of the above led me to call Chris Rongey on the postgame show last night after the first game. When I brought up the idea of signing some free agents this off season his response was he would be surprised if the White Sox would sign any free agents this off season. He claimed it wouldn't help attendance much next season if they signed some players. I would like to think Rongey knows things about the White Sox organization that most of us don't know. If he claims the White Sox are not going to sign any free agents after this season, he probably has already been told that by somebody in the White Sox organization. And if that's the case, I'm worried about the 2014 season already.

Poor analysis. There is not one position player who is an obvious puzzle piece for a contending team. Rios in a good year, maybe. The rest are garbage.

[LITTLE NELL]

Originally Posted by Golden Sox

The 2013 White Sox are in last place simply because this team can't hit. I read on one of these posts that the White Sox have scored 3 or less runs in 70% of there games. They're missing 2/3 hitters to contend. There are a number of ways to correct this problem. 1) Bring up some hitters from the Minor Leagues. There doesn't appear to be anybody down in the farms who can help the team next year. 2) Trade somebody from the bullpen for a good everyday hitter. The only person who can bring back a good hitter would be Addison Reed. I don't know if the White Sox want to do that. 3) Trade one/some of the starting pitchers who can bring back some hitters. It doesn't make any sense to me to trade your best pitchers. The only person they can plug into the rotation next season from the minors is Johnson. 4) Sign a couple of free agents who can hit. I don't mean high price agents like Robinson Cano. Free agents who are cheaper like K. Morales and Nate Mclouth would fit into the White Sox lineup quite nicely. I think this is the way to go. Add a few hitters into this lineup and keep our starting pitching staff together would put us back in the Playoff hunt for 2014. All of the above led me to call Chris Rongey on the postgame show last night after the first game. When I brought up the idea of signing some free agents this off season his response was he would be surprised if the White Sox would sign any free agents this off season. He claimed it wouldn't help attendance much next season if they signed some players. I would like to think Rongey knows things about the White Sox organization that most of us don't know. If he claims the White Sox are not going to sign any free agents after this season, he probably has already been told that by somebody in the White Sox organization. And if that's the case, I'm worried about the 2014 season already.

If that is the case I'd would be worried about a lot more seasons than 2014, it would mean they are in full re-building mode since I don't see a lot of immediate help in the minor league system.
What I'm hoping for is to keep the pitching staff intact, trade guys like Rios, Alexei, DeAza and Dunn and add a couple really good free agents.
I'm not sure what we could get for the guys I mentioned but we are in last place with them so lets get some new faces in here.

[DSpivack]

Originally Posted by A. Cavatica

Poor analysis. There is not one position player who is an obvious puzzle piece for a contending team. Rios in a good year, maybe. The rest are garbage.

I agree mostly as seen in a few posts above this one, but I think Alexei could also help a contending team with a SS problem (St. Louis unless they just stick Descalso there, Yankees if Jeter remains injured, Cincinnati). De Aza's stats this season look quite similar to Rios, although he is a more frustrating player to watch than Rios.

[Dan H]

Anyone who thinks this organization can rebuild this team is crazy.

[roylestillman]

Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL

[/I][/B]

If that is the case I'd would be worried about a lot more seasons than 2014, it would mean they are in full re-building mode since I don't see a lot of immediate help in the minor league system.
What I'm hoping for is to keep the pitching staff intact, trade guys like Rios, Alexei, DeAza and Dunn and add a couple really good free agents.
I'm not sure what we could get for the guys I mentioned but we are in last place with them so lets get some new faces in here.

I hope you're right, but are we in an era when there are no such thing as really good free agents? With the money that's sloshing through Major League Baseball, there are few teams that have to release talent for financial reasons like there was even a few years ago. Secondly, teams seem to sign their good young talent to long term contracts while they are still in their arbitration eligible years and taking them out a few years after they would have become free agents. Sale's contract is a prime example. What you are left with are a few very expensive guys at the peak of their careers looking for money and years covering their inevitable post steroid era decline (Pujols.)

[doublem23]

Originally Posted by Dan H

Anyone who thinks this organization can rebuild this team is crazy.