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  #16  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by DSpivack View Post
So if only NL teams won the WS for the next 20 years and the Sox didn't do jack **** in that time, you'll be happy?
If you wanted to be happy and follow baseball, you wouldn't be following the Whtie Sox. Or any team in the AL Central. Or West. Or most of the teams in the East. Or most of the teams in the National League. The Giants won the World Series in 2012 as well as 2010, and their 2013 is as bad as the Whtie Sox 2013, and not just relative to expectation.

If you want to be happy, you don't follow a baseball team.

If you are frestrated now because the thrill of the White Sox winning the World Series is old at still less than a decade, imagine what it was like in the 1970s when this season was the norm and my father wasn't born since the White Sox last won the World Series.
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  #17  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sunofgold View Post
And since the AL Central was created in 1994, we are the only team to represent the AL central and win the World Series.
I have no love for the Tigers, but I wouldn't mind them winning the WS this year (since the Sox are totally out of the running anyway) so that people can stop pointing to 2005 as vindication of how competitive the Sox have been since the AL Central was formed.

In almost 20 years of a 5-team division plus a wild card available, the Sox have made a playoffs a grand total of 3 times. It's been 5 years since we made the playoffs and it's looking at this point like that drought will extend to at least 7 years.

Thank God for the 2005 White Sox and i'm glad i'll always have that season in my memories. But i'd rather not be like Bears fans clinging to a sole Super Bowl win for the next quarter century.

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Originally Posted by cards press box View Post
And the last AL team before the Sox, Red Sox and Yankees to win a Series? The Angels in 2002. And how far does one have to go to find another AL team to win a Series? Twenty years since Toronto won in 1993.

Perhaps we should view the Sox' championship in 2005 in the context that it was a significant accomplishment. Can the Sox get back there? With the pitching they have, I think they can, provided that Rick Hahn can make the right moves. I like what I saw from Hahn at the trade deadline and I look forward to more moves.
The only AL teams to win the WS in the last 20 years are from NY, Chicago, LA, and Boston? Wow! Big markets rule in the AL.
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:56 AM
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I believe that if the Sox had made the playoffs at least 2 more times since 2005 that the general mood about the direction of the franchise would be much different, even with this disastrous season being part of the picture. That is really what has been missing... sustained success. Being the only original 16 franchise that hasn't made back-to-back postseason appearances is a drag, to say the least. Having said that, the OP's point is valid. Let's not pretend that the Sox have been the absolute dregs of the AL in the past 10-15 years. Lot's of work to be done, no doubt, but not cause for the depths of despair, either.
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  #19  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Damn, the NL has been on roll.....
Yeah winning 5/8 is a huge statistical correlation...

It's also 5/9 since the Red Sox won in 2004 also. The NL has won the last 3 two of them by the Giants. Prior to that the AL had won 12/19 with 5 of those by the Yankees...
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  #20  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
I
In almost 20 years of a 5-team division plus a wild card available, the Sox have made a playoffs a grand total of 3 times. It's been 5 years since we made the playoffs

We can all jump for joy that 05 happened, but as a big market team in a weak division, making the playoffs a mere three times under the current playoff structure is weak.
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  #21  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:32 PM
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We can all jump for joy that 05 happened, but as a big market team in a weak division, making the playoffs a mere three times under the current playoff structure is weak.
It is weak, but Texas and Toronto have larger media markets, Detroit's is about the same as the Sox. There are only three teams in the AL that have had significantly better postseason success under the current playoff structure: Boston (which does not have to share its 6-state media market with any other team), LAAAAA, and NYY. That is, unless you consider three more postseason appearances, including one more AL pennant, with no WS titles (Texas) significantly better.
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  #22  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
I believe that if the Sox had made the playoffs at least 2 more times since 2005 that the general mood about the direction of the franchise would be much different, even with this disastrous season being part of the picture. That is really what has been missing... sustained success. Being the only original 16 franchise that hasn't made back-to-back postseason appearances is a drag, to say the least. Having said that, the OP's point is valid. Let's not pretend that the Sox have been the absolute dregs of the AL in the past 10-15 years. Lot's of work to be done, no doubt, but not cause for the depths of despair, either.
Agreed. Look at the Angels. They made their one and only WS appearance with their 2002 championship. That was 11 years ago. But, they followed that up with 5 more division titles and they're generally seen as one of the more successful AL teams over the last 15 years or so.

It's not just about the general mood of the franchise either. I think the team would have had more sustained attendance success if they had managed a few more playoff appearances.

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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
It is weak, but Texas and Toronto have larger media markets, Detroit's is about the same as the Sox. There are only three teams in the AL that have had significantly better postseason success under the current playoff structure: Boston (which does not have to share its 6-state media market with any other team), LAAAAA, and NYY. That is, unless you consider three more postseason appearances, including one more AL pennant, with no WS titles (Texas) significantly better.
It depends on how you define postseason success. WS championships? Pennants? Or perhaps just making the postseason. Of course, WS titles trump all. We'll all take one of those as opposed to 5 division titles and no WS win. But, if we're looking at which teams can repeatedly make the playoffs, the Sox don't compare that well to other teams. The Indians had their turn at dominating the AL Central. The Twins had 6 division titles since 2002. Now it looks like it's the Tigers' turn to own the division. Back to back division titles, 2 pennants, and it looks like they're on their way to another playoff appearance. WS wins are what it's all about, but you need to make the playoffs first and the Sox have had trouble doing that.
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  #23  
Old 08-07-2013, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
I have no love for the Tigers, but I wouldn't mind them winning the WS this year (since the Sox are totally out of the running anyway) so that people can stop pointing to 2005 as vindication of how competitive the Sox have been since the AL Central was formed.

In almost 20 years of a 5-team division plus a wild card available, the Sox have made a playoffs a grand total of 3 times. It's been 5 years since we made the playoffs and it's looking at this point like that drought will extend to at least 7 years.

Thank God for the 2005 White Sox and i'm glad i'll always have that season in my memories. But i'd rather not be like Bears fans clinging to a sole Super Bowl win for the next quarter century.



The only AL teams to win the WS in the last 20 years are from NY, Chicago, LA, and Boston? Wow! Big markets rule in the AL.
This.

You know why the damn 1985 Bears are still so celebrated in Chicago? Because that organization hasn't won **** since. I don't want the White Sox to go down that road.

Everyone should cherish the memories of 2005, but it is disappointing the Sox failed to sustain the momentum that championship created. Basically, in years since, the Sox have fielded decent-to-good teams in even-numbered years and bad-to-poor teams in odd-numbered years. It's been a bit of a strange pattern.
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  #24  
Old 08-07-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
It is weak, but Texas and Toronto have larger media markets, Detroit's is about the same as the Sox. There are only three teams in the AL that have had significantly better postseason success under the current playoff structure: Boston (which does not have to share its 6-state media market with any other team), LAAAAA, and NYY. That is, unless you consider three more postseason appearances, including one more AL pennant, with no WS titles (Texas) significantly better.

http://www.proadvance.com/topmediamarkets.html

http://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

http://www.arbitron.com/home/mm001050.asp

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

Sorry no data on Canadian markets but I doubt Toronto is close to Chicago in size.
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  #25  
Old 08-07-2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
Why are you excluding the remaining part of Michigan or the northern half of Texas (let alone much of Oklahoma)? For that matter, why would you exclusde the remaining part of Ontario, let alone the rest of western Canada?
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2013, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Why are you excluding the remaining part of Michigan or the northern half of Texas (let alone much of Oklahoma)? For that matter, why would you exclusde the remaining part of Ontario, let alone the rest of western Canada?
Probably because none of those places are important
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  #27  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JB98 View Post
This.

You know why the damn 1985 Bears are still so celebrated in Chicago? Because that organization hasn't won **** since.
Even if the Bears had won a Superbowl since, the '85 team would still be celebrated. That was one of the best teams evah lead by one of the most beloved football players to ever put on a uniform and a legendary defense. Even a Packer fan would admit this (except maybe the beloved football player part.)
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  #28  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Why are you excluding the remaining part of Michigan or the northern half of Texas (let alone much of Oklahoma)? For that matter, why would you exclusde the remaining part of Ontario, let alone the rest of western Canada?
You obviously define a market differently than I do, and differently than the organizations that track this sort of thing. I guess if you're going to go with media outlets that cover each team I sort of see your point. Like if some station in Enid, Oklahoma is carrying the Rangers or something like that. To me Chicago is the third largest metro area and media market in the US. One of a small number that could actually support 2 MLB teams. I don't think a second team would work in Dallas-Fort Worth right now. As for Toronto, no matter how you slice and dice that one I don't see your point.
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  #29  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Even if the Bears had won a Superbowl since, the '85 team would still be celebrated. That was one of the best teams evah lead by one of the most beloved football players to ever put on a uniform and a legendary defense. Even a Packer fan would admit this (except maybe the beloved football player part.)
They may not love the Fridge but after he flattened their LB on MNF they damned well have to respect him.

Oh did you mean Sweetness? Yeah same thing. Sort of like I feel about Favre. Can't stand him but I damned well have to respect how he wrecked my team year after year after year...
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  #30  
Old 08-07-2013, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SI1020 View Post
As for Toronto, no matter how you slice and dice that one I don't see your point.
The greater Toronto area is more than six and a half million, that would definitely put it in the top quarter or so of ML markets population wise. Considering Toronto is the major city of Canada, and the Jays its only team, it could be feasible the media market for the Jays is comparable. The Sox have a lot more competition. For example, in northern Indiana you will probably find as many Cubs, Tigers and Reds fans as Sox fans, not to mention the ubiquitous Red Sox and Yankees fans.
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