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  #31  
Old 09-08-2013, 09:55 AM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Reed is 13 best in the AL - that sounds about right. Maybe a little better than that if used properly. Still when our best reliever (or at least he reliever we close with; Jones is probably better) is 13th best, that helps to explain why we aren't a very good team.
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2013, 09:58 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
I find using WAR just as adorable. It rates D Wise for 30 games higher than A Garcia in 27.

Are you agreeing with Edwin Starr that WAR is good for absolutely nothing?
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  #33  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:02 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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I find using WAR just as adorable. It rates D Wise for 30 games higher than A Garcia in 27.

Are you agreeing with Edwin Starr that WAR is good for absolutely nothing? I think its caused unrest in the younger generation.
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  #34  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:07 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Originally Posted by SCCWS View Post
Sale, Quintana and Garcia are keepers.
Yes. And, really, every trade should be considered.

On this team, getting rid of players will be about as important as acquiring them. The dumb players have to be jettisoned for the best deal the Sox can make for them. De Aza and Ramirez have to go.

I'd love to see Keppinger go. He's the most boring player I can remember playing for the Sox. He's not even fun bad.

The catchers need to go. We need to find a pair of who can catch the ball.

There are currently three DHs on the roster in Dunn, Konerko and Viciedo, if you give the latter two the benefit of producing enough to be called DHs. Dunn will be back. Nobody walks away from that kind of money. Unfortunately, it sounds like Konerko is coming back for a final year. Hopefully Viciedo disappears, one of the strongest but dumbest hitters I've seen.

Gillaspie is no answer to anything.

Maybe you keep Beckham, mostly only because there are so many other issues to deal with.

I'm crossing my fingers that Ventura decides to bail.

I believe Hahn is smart. Time will tell if he has the balls to make the moves that he knows need to be made. It'll be a bad sign if Ventura and Konerko return. I think everyone who's watched the team this season knows that shouldn't happen.
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  #35  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:11 AM
SoxSpeed22 SoxSpeed22 is offline
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Reed is 36/42 in save opportunities (with one of those blown saves not being his fault) and his ERA in the second half of the season is 2.63. I think we can do a whole lot worse than him, but I would not be opposed to trading him, as part of a packaged deal, for a young bat this offseason.
It will be interesting to see how the Sox handle their young arms this offseason.
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  #36  
Old 09-08-2013, 11:18 AM
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If Reed had an era of 0.00 and a WAR of 10, this team is still in last place. (maybe ahead of the Twins)
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  #37  
Old 09-08-2013, 01:36 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
I'm crossing my fingers that Ventura decides to bail.
How could it be his decision? We're sitting on our worst record in nearly 40 years, we've had a 10 game losing streak, and a 9 game losing streak and counting.
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  #38  
Old 09-08-2013, 03:17 PM
KyWhiSoxFan KyWhiSoxFan is offline
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Not sure why every none is so intent on debating the value of Reed. Of all the holes and problems the Sox have, closer is not even on the radar because they're not competitive enough for it to matter. If the Sox had a winning record and they were fighting for a playoff spot, then it matters.
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  #39  
Old 09-08-2013, 03:48 PM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
How could it be his decision? We're sitting on our worst record in nearly 40 years, we've had a 10 game losing streak, and a 9 game losing streak and counting.
Hey, if it was up to me, Ventura would have already been fired. I'm just resigned to the fact that he won't be. Perhaps he will, under the guise of it being his decision. The organization has a bad recent record of keeping managers too long. Manuel and Guillen were both kept a year too long.
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  #40  
Old 09-08-2013, 04:27 PM
SBSoxFan SBSoxFan is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxSpeed22 View Post
Reed is 36/42 in save opportunities (with one of those blown saves not being his fault) and his ERA in the second half of the season is 2.63. I think we can do a whole lot worse than him, but I would not be opposed to trading him, as part of a packaged deal, for a young bat this offseason.
It will be interesting to see how the Sox handle their young arms this offseason.
Mariano Rivera has an ERA more than one run less than Reed, but also has one more blown saves.
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  #41  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:06 PM
Senerch23 Senerch23 is offline
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Originally Posted by KyWhiSoxFan View Post
Not sure why every none is so intent on debating the value of Reed. Of all the holes and problems the Sox have, closer is not even on the radar because they're not competitive enough for it to matter. If the Sox had a winning record and they were fighting for a playoff spot, then it matters.
These are my thoughts as well. I'm more concerned about this team having to revamp nearly the entire lineup.
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  #42  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:49 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
Hey, if it was up to me, Ventura would have already been fired. I'm just resigned to the fact that he won't be. Perhaps he will, under the guise of it being his decision. The organization has a bad recent record of keeping managers too long. Manuel and Guillen were both kept a year too long.
I know their preference would generally be to give him another year. But the way this team disintegrated, I just can't see it happening.
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  #43  
Old 09-08-2013, 06:00 PM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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I know their preference would generally be to give him another year. But the way this team disintegrated, I just can't see it happening.
Perhaps someone here can enlighten me but I just don't understand why this happened. Not just the losing, but the stupid I don't give a damn baseball. So many things seemed to improve in Robin's first year until the September collapse. They carried that over big time into this year. Why?
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  #44  
Old 09-08-2013, 06:50 PM
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LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Perhaps someone here can enlighten me but I just don't understand why this happened. Not just the losing, but the stupid I don't give a damn baseball. So many things seemed to improve in Robin's first year until the September collapse. They carried that over big time into this year. Why?
The offense just plain imploded. You just can't have a guy like Dunn batting 3rd or 4th, that along with PK in the twi-lite of his career and very un- productive making for a horrible middle of the lineup. Add in players who have no clue of what a good at bat is. The pitching was good enough to contend but with some of the dumbest hitters in the game like Alexei, DeAza and the Tank stinking up the place, we were doomed. Losing AJ and hoping Flowers was ready was a huge mistake. The only pickup was Keppinger, no comment on him. I think the players brought their hitting troubles out to the field with them thus the loss of concentration which led to a ton of errors and bonehead plays.
The rebuilding job is going to be monumental, good luck to Hahn.
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Last edited by LITTLE NELL; 09-08-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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  #45  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:54 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
The offense just plain imploded. You just can't have a guy like Dunn batting 3rd or 4th, that along with PK in the twi-lite of his career and very un- productive making for a horrible middle of the lineup. Add in players who have no clue of what a good at bat is. The pitching was good enough to contend but with some of the dumbest hitters in the game like Alexei, DeAza and the Tank stinking up the place, we were doomed. Losing AJ and hoping Flowers was ready was a huge mistake. The only pickup was Keppinger, no comment on him. I think the players brought their hitting troubles out to the field with them thus the loss of concentration which led to a ton of errors and bonehead plays.
The rebuilding job is going to be monumental, good luck to Hahn.
I agree. The list of "keepers" is rather thin and Hahn & Co.have a huge task ahead of them in trying to make this team a playoff contender again.

It took the White Sox many years let the organization slide into its current state and it might take at least a few more for Sox management to dig themselves out of this hole.

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Originally Posted by amsteel View Post
So we're 6 years away from an ALCS appearance? I'll take it.
I think waiting until 2019 for another playoff appearance is unacceptable. We've already gone 5 years without a playoff appearance and 6 more would just be pathetic . And people wonder why the Sox can't build solid attendance numbers.

EDIT: I see that you said "ALCS appearance" - meaning winning an ALDS series six years from now and that we might make the playoffs with a first round exit before then. Even so, that would mean 14 years in between ALCS appearances and only the 2nd ALCS appearance in nearly a quarter century (by that point) of the 3-division/wild card format.

The Sox need to do better than that.
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