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  #136  
Old 06-05-2014, 11:39 AM
sunofgold sunofgold is offline
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Default It is up to MB

It is up to MB and how long he wants to stay in the game. If he pitches as long as Jamie Moyer, he will make the HOF.

If he doesn't make the Hall, it is still fun seeing how close he will get.
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  #137  
Old 06-05-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Moses_Scurry View Post
While I am not saying that he is close to being a HOF candidate at this point in time, I think you are underrating longevity. In this day and age with so many Tommy John surgeries and great starting pitchers flaming out young, a guy like Buehrle should definitely be celebrated. Longevity is becoming a very important characteristic for pitchers, and it will become more and more recognized until they can find a way to reverse the current trend that has produced around 20 TJS's so far this year. I don't think Buehrle is a HOF candidate right now, but I also don't think the book is closed on that forever either.

And, ironically, Tommy John with his 288 wins, 3.34 ERA, 3 20-win seasons, 4 all-star games and 6 post-season victories isn't in the HOF.
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  #138  
Old 06-05-2014, 01:58 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by sunofgold View Post
It is up to MB and how long he wants to stay in the game. If he pitches as long as Jamie Moyer, he will make the HOF.

If he doesn't make the Hall, it is still fun seeing how close he will get.
Since like next to no one does, I just don't see it happening.
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  #139  
Old 06-05-2014, 02:01 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
And, ironically, Tommy John with his 288 wins, 3.34 ERA, 3 20-win seasons, 4 all-star games and 6 post-season victories isn't in the HOF.
I've often wondered why Tommy John isn't in the Hall of Fame. I've concluded it's because he wasn't a very good for so long and that late Tommy John is what people remember. Still, I would have voted for him ahead of Blyleven.

Of course, Tommy John is more famous because of his surgery than he would be in the Hall of Fame without any surgery named for his, so there is some consolation.
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  #140  
Old 06-05-2014, 02:08 PM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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Originally Posted by Chez View Post
And, ironically, Tommy John with his 288 wins, 3.34 ERA, 3 20-win seasons, 4 all-star games and 6 post-season victories isn't in the HOF.

And god forbid if we bring up the Sox best lefty, Billy Pierce.
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  #141  
Old 06-05-2014, 02:36 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I've often wondered why Tommy John isn't in the Hall of Fame. I've concluded it's because he wasn't a very good for so long and that late Tommy John is what people remember. Still, I would have voted for him ahead of Blyleven.

Of course, Tommy John is more famous because of his surgery than he would be in the Hall of Fame without any surgery named for his, so there is some consolation.
He's in the Dr. James Andrews Wing of the Hall.
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  #142  
Old 06-05-2014, 04:57 PM
CoopaLoop CoopaLoop is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
He's in the Dr. James Andrews Wing of the Hall.
Dr James Andrews should actually get in at some point.
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  #143  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:03 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop
Dr James Andrews should actually get in at some point.
Someday, there will probably be patients of his on the Veterans' Committee, so it is possible.
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  #144  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:06 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Brian26
Why is it unbelievable when Buehrle took significantly less money to play for the Sox in his last two contracts?
He did give a hometown discount, but he was also smart enough to protect himself by throwing a trade escalator in his contract, which would have erased the hometown discount if the White Sox traded him. His 4 year, $56 million deal would have went to 5 years, $75 million. I'm also wondering if Buehrle might have settled on $56 million out of superstition.
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  #145  
Old 06-05-2014, 05:18 PM
gobears1987 gobears1987 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
He did give a hometown discount, but he was also smart enough to protect himself by throwing a trade escalator in his contract, which would have erased the hometown discount if the White Sox traded him. His 4 year, $56 million deal would have went to 5 years, $75 million. I'm also wondering if Buehrle might have settled on $56 million out of superstition.
Buehrle never struck me as superstitious. He freaking talked about his no-hitter and perfect game while in progress.
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  #146  
Old 06-05-2014, 06:39 PM
chicagowhitesox1 chicagowhitesox1 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I've often wondered why Tommy John isn't in the Hall of Fame. I've concluded it's because he wasn't a very good for so long and that late Tommy John is what people remember. Still, I would have voted for him ahead of Blyleven.

Of course, Tommy John is more famous because of his surgery than he would be in the Hall of Fame without any surgery named for his, so there is some consolation.
I'm surprised you think Tommy John is more of a Hall of Famer than Blyleven. I'll admit, I never thought of Blyleven as a Hall of Famer until after he was elected but when I look at his stats, I have him as a top 20 pitcher of all time. I think he had 60 shutouts and I know he had tons of 1-0, 2-1 type losses in his career.

The fact that Blyleven got in is very telling of how voters have already started to look at advanced stats as a measure for pitchers. This will only help Buehrle in later years too.
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  #147  
Old 06-06-2014, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by CoopaLoop View Post
Dr James Andrews should actually get in at some point.

In the interest of giving credit where credit is due, it was Dr. Frank Jobe who did the surgery on Tommy John and pioneered the procedure now known as "Tommy John Surgery." That's not meant to diminish Dr. Andrews' contributions.
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  #148  
Old 06-06-2014, 10:10 AM
SI1020 SI1020 is offline
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
I'm surprised you think Tommy John is more of a Hall of Famer than Blyleven. I'll admit, I never thought of Blyleven as a Hall of Famer until after he was elected but when I look at his stats, I have him as a top 20 pitcher of all time. I think he had 60 shutouts and I know he had tons of 1-0, 2-1 type losses in his career.

The fact that Blyleven got in is very telling of how voters have already started to look at advanced stats as a measure for pitchers. This will only help Buehrle in later years too.
I agree with you that Blyleven is more hall worthy than Tommy John. In fact, it isn't even close. I tried to make the argument that advanced stats idolatry will change HOF voting habits in the future and it didn't go well. Speaking of those so called "advanced stats" I was just going over Whitey Ford's "advanced stats" and it seems to me he got a royal screwing. You look at his black ink, gray ink, HOF monitor and HOF standards numbers on baseball-reference and they are in contrast with his WAR and JAWS. The more I look into it the less impressed I get with the whole saber thing. I know that is sacrilege.
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  #149  
Old 06-06-2014, 10:17 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by chicagowhitesox1 View Post
I'm surprised you think Tommy John is more of a Hall of Famer than Blyleven.
Circle whichever one you think is the better HOFer.
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  #150  
Old 06-06-2014, 04:06 PM
sunofgold sunofgold is offline
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Default Concur?

300 wins and Mark Buehrle is guaranteed HOF. Agreed?

He is now averaging 14-15 wins a season. He would have to pitch at age 42 in 2021 which is very possible. Could go down 41 if he continues to pitch for awhile at his 2014 pace.

Or he could retire early. Lol. Up to MB.
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