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  #196  
Old 09-28-2019, 04:50 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
At that point, they may as well just keep Price. Blowing a hole in the rotation and paying $16 million annually to the White Sox for the privilege makes no sense. Any arm to replace Price would be at least another $7-10 million per year, so where is the financial incentive?
True, Rodon is less likely to be healthy than Price and less likely to be good when he's healthy. Maybe he still has enough potential to get them to eat a smaller chunk of the contract.
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  #197  
Old 09-28-2019, 04:51 PM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is offline
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Zero interest in seeing the Sox trade for an overpaid 34 year old well out of his prime
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  #198  
Old 09-28-2019, 05:07 PM
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Well, all I can say is that you should prepare to be disappointed, because hell has a better chance of freezing over than the White Sox have of signing Gerrit Cole.
Other pitchers I would prefer than Price if Cole doesn't sign and I never said I expected him to sign. I agree with you he's unlikely to come here.
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  #199  
Old 09-28-2019, 05:53 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Strasburg is undoubtedly opting out this offseason. He's older than Cole (30), and would likely take a 5 or 6 year deal for ~$30 million per to sign. I think he's a vastly more likely target for us than Gerrit Cole. I don't see the Sox even coming close to sniffing the 8-10 year commitment that Cole will seek.
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  #200  
Old 09-28-2019, 06:05 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Strasburg is undoubtedly opting out this offseason. He's older than Cole (30), and would likely take a 5 or 6 year deal for ~$30 million per to sign. I think he's a vastly more likely target for us than Gerrit Cole. I don't see the Sox even coming close to sniffing the 8-10 year commitment that Cole will seek.
I'm hoping for one of Cole, Strasburg, or Bumgarner. I don't see any other ace-caliber pitchers. And I think all three are unlikely to sign here; if they can get the same money to pitch in the NL, they will.
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  #201  
Old 09-28-2019, 06:49 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I'm hoping for one of Cole, Strasburg, or Bumgarner. I don't see any other ace-caliber pitchers. And I think all three are unlikely to sign here; if they can get the same money to pitch in the NL, they will.
Bumgarner may only get 4 years. Strasburg probably gets 5, maybe 6. Cole gets 7 or more likely 8.

If Bumgarner agrees to only 4 guaranteed years, front-load the hell out of it. Even at 5 years, he still may be able to be accommodated, if he would be cool with some deferrals on the 4th and 5th years. Then go get Price as well. Restructure his contract and front-load the hell out of it. Go from $32/32/32 to something like $40/$35/$21

Maybe the hole in RF needs to wait a year for Mookie Betts (if there is any truth to those rumblings).

If the big worry is signing the players we are developing, Price will be gone by then, and MadBum will be gone shortly thereafter. Plus, if we pay up front for a change, their final years will add flexibility rather than compromise it.

We would be looking at MadBum, Price, Giolito, Cease, Lopez in the rotation with the TJS rehabbers doing a lighter workload out of the bullpen next year and getting after it more intensely going into 2021. This gives us another year to find out exactly what we have in Lopez, to let Cease develop, and to make sure Giolito is indeed the real deal.

If Lopez pitches his way out of the rotation, he can’t say he wasn’t given a fair shake. If Giolito takes a step backward, we have enough talent to pick up the slack. If Cease’s development stalls and his outings are shorter than planned, we’re still OK with other innings-eaters. Plus, what are the odds of getting 30+ starts from all 5 of your starters nowadays?

There is no such thing as rotation redundancy. Get as much high-quality pitching as possible. Figure the rest out later.
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  #202  
Old 09-28-2019, 07:41 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Bumgarner may only get 4 years. Strasburg probably gets 5, maybe 6. Cole gets 7 or more likely 8.

If Bumgarner agrees to only 4 guaranteed years, front-load the hell out of it. Even at 5 years, he still may be able to be accommodated, if he would be cool with some deferrals on the 4th and 5th years. Then go get Price as well. Restructure his contract and front-load the hell out of it. Go from $32/32/32 to something like $40/$35/$21

Maybe the hole in RF needs to wait a year for Mookie Betts (if there is any truth to those rumblings).

If the big worry is signing the players we are developing, Price will be gone by then, and MadBum will be gone shortly thereafter. Plus, if we pay up front for a change, their final years will add flexibility rather than compromise it.

We would be looking at MadBum, Price, Giolito, Cease, Lopez in the rotation with the TJS rehabbers doing a lighter workload out of the bullpen next year and getting after it more intensely going into 2021. This gives us another year to find out exactly what we have in Lopez, to let Cease develop, and to make sure Giolito is indeed the real deal.

If Lopez pitches his way out of the rotation, he canít say he wasnít given a fair shake. If Giolito takes a step backward, we have enough talent to pick up the slack. If Ceaseís development stalls and his outings are shorter than planned, weíre still OK with other innings-eaters. Plus, what are the odds of getting 30+ starts from all 5 of your starters nowadays?

There is no such thing as rotation redundancy. Get as much high-quality pitching as possible. Figure the rest out later.
I completely agree -- except Giolito would be the #2 in that rotation, Price the #3.
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  #203  
Old 09-28-2019, 07:45 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Collins' bat has not been hot (the way we saw him get hot in the minors) but it has recovered somewhat. His average is up to .198, OPS to .686. Keep giving him time.
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  #204  
Old 09-28-2019, 08:12 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
I completely agree -- except Giolito would be the #2 in that rotation, Price the #3.
I wasnít really listing them in any order. I just put the new guys in front of the guys already here.

Maybe your RF hole gets plugged by Robert for a year, with Robert shifting to CF if we do land Betts going into 2021. Just have Engel bat 9th and be the only hole in the lineup, with the hope that he can just replicate what he has done in the 2nd half of this season. Maybe he can do even better with a better leadoff hitter hitting behind him. Fill the DH spot with Collins, who looks like he possibly can provide the LH power bat that Alonso, Palka, and Reed all failed to provide.

Eloy/Engel/Robert (in 2 weeks), Moncada/TA/Madrigal (in 2 weeks)/Abreu, McCann, Collins may not be ready to win in 2020, but with those rotation additions, Iíll take my chances. Then I see if I can land Betts going into 2021 and blow the doors off the whole thing.
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  #205  
Old 09-28-2019, 08:40 PM
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Or, if people would rather ditch the Price idea, get just 1 pitcher, and address the lineup hole short-term, perhaps it's time for another crosstown trade, with the Sox as buyers this time.

Madrigal, a Basabe/Adolfo/Gonzalez outfielder, and a Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington pitcher for Kris Bryant.

Bryant splits time between 3B, LF, RF, 1B, and DH. Moncada splits time between 2B and 3B. Eloy gets some starts at DH in bigger ballparks where we need better defense. Engel plays part time instead of full time. Yolmer plays part time instead of full time.

Everyday starting 9 with Bryant at 3B:

Eloy/Engel/Robert, Bryant/TA/Moncada/Abreu, McCann, Collins

Everyday starting 9 with Bryant in LF:

Bryant/Engel/Robert, Moncada/TA/Yolmer/Abreu, McCann, Eloy

Everyday starting 9 with Bryant in RF:

Eloy/Robert/Bryant, Moncada/TA/Yolmer/Abreu, McCann, Collins
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  #206  
Old 09-28-2019, 08:44 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is online now
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Or, if people would rather ditch the Price idea, get just 1 pitcher, and address the lineup hole short-term, perhaps it's time for another crosstown trade, with the Sox as buyers this time.

Madrigal, a Basabe/Adolfo/Gonzalez outfielder, and a Thompson/Dalquist/Pilkington pitcher for Kris Bryant.

Bryant splits time between 3B, LF, RF, 1B, and DH. Moncada splits time between 2B and 3B. Eloy gets some starts at DH in bigger ballparks where we need better defense. Engel plays part time instead of full time. Yolmer plays part time instead of full time.

Everyday starting 9 with Bryant at 3B:

Eloy/Engel/Robert, Bryant/TA/Moncada/Abreu, McCann, Collins

Everyday starting 9 with Bryant in LF:

Bryant/Engel/Robert, Moncada/TA/Yolmer/Abreu, McCann, Eloy

Everyday starting 9 with Bryant in RF:

Eloy/Robert/Bryant, Moncada/TA/Yolmer/Abreu, McCann, Collins
Yuck
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  #207  
Old 09-28-2019, 08:53 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Yuck
Yeah, that 130 OPS+ would look awful being added to the lineup.
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  #208  
Old 09-28-2019, 10:25 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Please, no trades for players on 1 and 2 year contracts. That has a 0% success rate.
I like what I've seen from Collins; OPS near .700 despite a batting average below .200. He's taking his walks. He will get better fast.
Engel has a chance to get the OPS to .700 tomorrow.
The Sox need 3 starters and 2 relievers, including a high leverage reliever (because they don't really have one). That should be the priority.
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  #209  
Old 09-28-2019, 10:57 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Please, no trades for players on 1 and 2 year contracts. That has a 0% success rate.
I like what I've seen from Collins; OPS near .700 despite a batting average below .200. He's taking his walks. He will get better fast.
Engel has a chance to get the OPS to .700 tomorrow.
The Sox need 3 starters and 2 relievers, including a high leverage reliever (because they don't really have one). That should be the priority.
When you refuse to commit big money to contracts that go 5+ years, your only chance to import impact talent to augment your homegrown core is to trade for it. You can always play the long odds on the waiver wire, the Rule 5, and minor league free agency, but how often does that actually produce value?

The time to strike is now, while Moncada, Eloy, and Robert are still making chump change. 1 and 2 year contracts are ideal; they are off the books by the time those guys get expensive.

Again, there will come a time when Rick Hahn will be acquiring short-term veterans in exchange for youth. Youíre just going to have to accept it.
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  #210  
Old 09-28-2019, 11:00 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Sox are building a team that can win year after year.

They don't need Cubbie losers like Kris Bryant.
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