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  #16  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by thomas35forever View Post
I'm happy for him, but I grow weary, too. Now they'll say he's perfectly capable of starting. Then, he'll go out and have a crappy first two months.
And it won't really matter and if it means he gets the chance to work on his stuff and become a stronger pitcher or even eventually improve his trade value that's cool too. I'd rather try to move him as a starter than give up and convert him to reliever before he ever really gets the chance to fail. He has shown flashes, a few weeks of bad spring training don't change that fact.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2018, 09:28 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile
Is there room? They are expecting to carry Leury also for flexibility since can play infield also.
To be honest, I wouldn’t mind one bit if Leury gets traded before the season starts to eliminate the “logjam.”

From a defensive standpoint, both Yolmer Sanchez and Tyler Saladino would always be preferable to Leury in the infield, and both Ryan Cordell and Adam Engel would always be preferable to Leury in the outfield. I would like to see the team give both of those young outfielders an extended look this year. One of them may shock us by hitting well enough to win the everyday CF job long-term, pushing Robert to a corner and upgrading the defense as a result. Plus, by the time we’re competitive enough to need a true utility man, I think we can find one among our “failed” prospects with more upside than Leury.

I would go with these 10 position players:

Abreu
Moncada
Anderson
Sanchez
Saladino
Davidson (not ideal, but Leury likely has more trade value)
Avi
Engel
Cordell
Delmonico
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  #18  
Old 03-19-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
To be honest, I wouldn’t mind one bit if Leury gets traded before the season starts to eliminate the “logjam.”

From a defensive standpoint, both Yolmer Sanchez and Tyler Saladino would always be preferable to Leury in the infield, and both Ryan Cordell and Adam Engel would always be preferable to Leury in the outfield. I would like to see the team give both of those young outfielders an extended look this year. One of them may shock us by hitting well enough to win the everyday CF job long-term, pushing Robert to a corner and upgrading the defense as a result. Plus, by the time we’re competitive enough to need a true utility man, I think we can find one among our “failed” prospects with more upside than Leury.
Agreed!
  #19  
Old 03-20-2018, 09:11 AM
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It is kind of obvious that part of the problem for Fulmer is less his delivery and more his movement. If you watch his fastball, which I believe is a two seam, it constantly moves away at the last second. That could be devastating to hitters, but also hurts him if he misses his spots.

Coop said that Arizona air impacted his pitching. I am not sure how much weight I can give to that analysis, but I know he will be our fifth starter come the regular season regardless.
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2018, 11:13 AM
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Kopech and May sent down:
https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/976126458644090888
  #21  
Old 03-20-2018, 11:30 AM
DonnieDarko DonnieDarko is offline
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
It is kind of obvious that part of the problem for Fulmer is less his delivery and more his movement. If you watch his fastball, which I believe is a two seam, it constantly moves away at the last second. That could be devastating to hitters, but also hurts him if he misses his spots.

Coop said that Arizona air impacted his pitching. I am not sure how much weight I can give to that analysis, but I know he will be our fifth starter come the regular season regardless.
Yeah, the thin air argument kind of wears on me when you look at how Webb's sinker moved down here.
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2018, 11:58 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is online now
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
And it won't really matter and if it means he gets the chance to work on his stuff and become a stronger pitcher or even eventually improve his trade value that's cool too. I'd rather try to move him as a starter than give up and convert him to reliever before he ever really gets the chance to fail. He has shown flashes, a few weeks of bad spring training don't change that fact.
Agreed. I'd rather he get a chance to work with Coop and see if he can become a decent starting pitcher at the major league level. If it works out, that's a huge benefit to the Sox. IMO, it's worth giving it a shot with him.
  #24  
Old 03-20-2018, 12:36 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
Agreed. I'd rather he get a chance to work with Coop and see if he can become a decent starting pitcher at the major league level. If it works out, that's a huge benefit to the Sox. IMO, it's worth giving it a shot with him.
I just don't think he deserves it. He's getting chances because he was a high pick, not because he's shown he's ready for them. I think a full season of starting at Birmingham would be more valuable than working with Coop (and wouldn't distract Coop from all the other projects he has).
  #25  
Old 03-20-2018, 12:50 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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As some others have posted, I'd prefer they go with a six-man rotation. The organization currently is best served by having Fulmer working with Cooper in the hopes he can be a starter. (If he ultimately fails in that role this year, then you move him to the bullpen after the All Star Break or in 2019.) Santiago's performance in Spring Training has earned him a rotation spot, and right now he's the only healthy southpaw starter. None of the projected starters has gone 200 innings previously (Lopez, Gioltio, Fulmer) or recently (Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago). A six-man rotation also allows Santiago, Gonzalez, and Shields all to be "showcased," hopefully to build as much value as possible in midseason trades for prospects, to make room for Kopech and Rodon when they are ready/healthy.
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  #26  
Old 03-20-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
As some others have posted, I'd prefer they go with a six-man rotation. The organization currently is best served by having Fulmer working with Cooper in the hopes he can be a starter. (If he ultimately fails in that role this year, then you move him to the bullpen after the All Star Break or in 2019.) Santiago's performance in Spring Training has earned him a rotation spot, and right now he's the only healthy southpaw starter. None of the projected starters has gone 200 innings previously (Lopez, Gioltio, Fulmer) or recently (Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago). A six-man rotation also allows Santiago, Gonzalez, and Shields all to be "showcased," hopefully to build as much value as possible in midseason trades for prospects, to make room for Kopech and Rodon when they are ready/healthy.

This makes sense.
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  #27  
Old 03-20-2018, 03:13 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
To be honest, I wouldn’t mind one bit if Leury gets traded before the season starts to eliminate the “logjam.”

From a defensive standpoint, both Yolmer Sanchez and Tyler Saladino would always be preferable to Leury in the infield, and both Ryan Cordell and Adam Engel would always be preferable to Leury in the outfield.
But Leury can play both IF and OF.
Saladino took a big step back last season. I know he was injured, but still. I'd go Cordell, who might develop into something good.
Leury and Davidson took big jumps last year. Both have improvement to do.
Saladino is Saladino.
And the Sox aren't exactly replete in the middle infield in the system.
And if you trade any of these guys right now, the Sox will get a player who projects to be about what the players traded are. They should be able to move these old relievers in July, hopefully for some pitching.
  #28  
Old 03-20-2018, 03:31 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg
But Leury can play both IF and OF.
Saladino took a big step back last season. I know he was injured, but still. I'd go Cordell, who might develop into something good.
Leury and Davidson took big jumps last year. Both have improvement to do.
Saladino is Saladino.
And the Sox aren't exactly replete in the middle infield in the system.
And if you trade any of these guys right now, the Sox will get a player who projects to be about what the players traded are. They should be able to move these old relievers in July, hopefully for some pitching.
I’m operating under the assumption that none of those players ever will hit enough to be MLB starters. They are more than welcome to try and prove me wrong, though.

Since I don’t see any of their bats turning into long-term assets, we may as well focus on securing as many outs as possible for a rotation full of kids (and a guy running on fumes in James Shields) and a bullpen that looks like it will be one of the worst in baseball.

An anemic offense is not a problem for a rebuilding club that isn’t expected to contend. However, an inability to get outs in a relatively timely manner can make games last forever, which does nothing but increase the risk of injury.
  #29  
Old 03-20-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
As some others have posted, I'd prefer they go with a six-man rotation. The organization currently is best served by having Fulmer working with Cooper in the hopes he can be a starter. (If he ultimately fails in that role this year, then you move him to the bullpen after the All Star Break or in 2019.) Santiago's performance in Spring Training has earned him a rotation spot, and right now he's the only healthy southpaw starter. None of the projected starters has gone 200 innings previously (Lopez, Gioltio, Fulmer) or recently (Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago). A six-man rotation also allows Santiago, Gonzalez, and Shields all to be "showcased," hopefully to build as much value as possible in midseason trades for prospects, to make room for Kopech and Rodon when they are ready/healthy.
How so? He's started 1 spring game. The rest of the time has been out of the bullpen. During yesterday's broadcast they talked to Coop and he did not make it sound like Santiago was going to be part of the rotation. Coop specifically mentioned having him spot start when needed and a good option to have out of the bullpen.
  #30  
Old 03-20-2018, 03:41 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo
As some others have posted, I'd prefer they go with a six-man rotation. The organization currently is best served by having Fulmer working with Cooper in the hopes he can be a starter. (If he ultimately fails in that role this year, then you move him to the bullpen after the All Star Break or in 2019.) Santiago's performance in Spring Training has earned him a rotation spot, and right now he's the only healthy southpaw starter. None of the projected starters has gone 200 innings previously (Lopez, Gioltio, Fulmer) or recently (Shields, Gonzalez, Santiago). A six-man rotation also allows Santiago, Gonzalez, and Shields all to be "showcased," hopefully to build as much value as possible in midseason trades for prospects, to make room for Kopech and Rodon when they are ready/healthy.
A 6-man rotation won’t work. I don’t see this team deviating from an 8-man bullpen, and going with only 9 position players leaves Renteria severely short-handed.
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