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  #106  
Old 07-12-2018, 11:31 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
So we have only two options: accept the new reality of the situation, or stop watching baseball.
Given the results on the field and the stories from both Fan Graphs and ESPN, it seems many Sox fans are doing exactly what you write in your last sentence. The last four words specifically.

By the way if you work in an organization, congrats to you, no sarcasm there, just best of luck to you on your career.

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 07-12-2018 at 12:41 PM.
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  #107  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Given the results on the field and the stories from both Fan Graphs and ESPN, it seems many Sox fans are doing exactly what you write in your last sentence. The last four words specifically.

By the way if you work in an organization, congrats to you, no sarcasm there, just best of luck to you on your career.
Not sure the change in strategy is the reason for declining attendance. There does seem to be a sea change in the sports the younger generations enjoy watching./playing.
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  #108  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:56 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1
Given the results on the field and the stories from both Fan Graphs and ESPN, it seems many Sox fans are doing exactly what you write in your last sentence. The last four words specifically.
Not much the GM can do about the marketing side of things. His job is to assemble a winning baseball team, not to assemble a baseball team that some fans consider “pretty.” Judging by the history of this organization, fan interest strongly correlates with the team’s ability to compete. All the GM can do is fulfill his part of the bargain and hope that history repeats itself.
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  #109  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:22 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
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Bill James article-- Contact Theory and Power Theory

https://www.billjamesonline.com/the_..._power_theory/
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  #110  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:25 PM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Not sure the change in strategy is the reason for declining attendance. There does seem to be a sea change in the sports the younger generations enjoy watching./playing.
Speaking as a relatively young person, albeit one who loves and has few issues with the current state of baseball (outside the South Side, at least ), my conversations about this with fellow Millennials almost always circle around to the combination of a) almost everybody has an HDTV or HD streaming these days, so the difference in terms of actually watching the game between live and at home is minimal, which in turn with the fact that b) it just costs a lot of time and money to go to a game these days, gives people even less incentive to go to the ballpark.

We're lucky that Sox tickets are cheap because they're bad, and for those of us actually in the city, it's very accessible via both public trans and local parking. I have friends who live in Western Long Island and the Bay Area for whom going to a Yankees or Giants game is at minimum a $150 investment for two people, even more if you want food or a drink. Maybe the Yankees can afford to do business like that, but most teams and fanbases can't, and I think the game is suffering for it. There are twice as many home baseball games a season are basketball or hockey, and ten times as many as football. I think if attendance is going to recover, teams and MLB as a whole need to return to making it feel as if going to a ballgame is a casual experience that doesn't necessarily need a whole lot of planning or investment, as opposed to asomething you can afford to do once or twice a year at most, like the NBA or NFL. If anything that's how it became the "national pastime" to begin with.

Just my two cents.
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  #111  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:44 PM
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When compared to many other teams in baseball, White Sox tickets are a bargain. $20 won’t get you into many lower decks in the majors, and $7 for a nosebleed is about half the price of a movie ticket.
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  #112  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:56 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Not sure the change in strategy is the reason for declining attendance. There does seem to be a sea change in the sports the younger generations enjoy watching./playing.
I don't think it does either. The studies I was referring to regarding RSN viewership for the Sox being dead last in baseball I think primarily comes from the fact that they've basically been terrible since the start of the 2007 season (with a few exceptions), along with frankly the success of the Cubs and what some would say isn't the best job of marketing / promoting the team.

I think the bulk of it is because they've just been a bad team.
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  #113  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mzh View Post
Speaking as a relatively young person, albeit one who loves and has few issues with the current state of baseball (outside the South Side, at least ), my conversations about this with fellow Millennials almost always circle around to the combination of a) almost everybody has an HDTV or HD streaming these days, so the difference in terms of actually watching the game between live and at home is minimal, which in turn with the fact that b) it just costs a lot of time and money to go to a game these days, gives people even less incentive to go to the ballpark.

We're lucky that Sox tickets are cheap because they're bad, and for those of us actually in the city, it's very accessible via both public trans and local parking. I have friends who live in Western Long Island and the Bay Area for whom going to a Yankees or Giants game is at minimum a $150 investment for two people, even more if you want food or a drink. Maybe the Yankees can afford to do business like that, but most teams and fanbases can't, and I think the game is suffering for it. There are twice as many home baseball games a season are basketball or hockey, and ten times as many as football. I think if attendance is going to recover, teams and MLB as a whole need to return to making it feel as if going to a ballgame is a casual experience that doesn't necessarily need a whole lot of planning or investment, as opposed to asomething you can afford to do once or twice a year at most, like the NBA or NFL. If anything that's how it became the "national pastime" to begin with.

Just my two cents.
Cost of attendance is something I think the Cubs are going to start feeling from their fan base soon.
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  #114  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzh View Post
Speaking as a relatively young person, albeit one who loves and has few issues with the current state of baseball (outside the South Side, at least ), my conversations about this with fellow Millennials almost always circle around to the combination of a) almost everybody has an HDTV or HD streaming these days, so the difference in terms of actually watching the game between live and at home is minimal, which in turn with the fact that b) it just costs a lot of time and money to go to a game these days, gives people even less incentive to go to the ballpark.

We're lucky that Sox tickets are cheap because they're bad, and for those of us actually in the city, it's very accessible via both public trans and local parking. I have friends who live in Western Long Island and the Bay Area for whom going to a Yankees or Giants game is at minimum a $150 investment for two people, even more if you want food or a drink. Maybe the Yankees can afford to do business like that, but most teams and fanbases can't, and I think the game is suffering for it. There are twice as many home baseball games a season are basketball or hockey, and ten times as many as football. I think if attendance is going to recover, teams and MLB as a whole need to return to making it feel as if going to a ballgame is a casual experience that doesn't necessarily need a whole lot of planning or investment, as opposed to asomething you can afford to do once or twice a year at most, like the NBA or NFL. If anything that's how it became the "national pastime" to begin with.

Just my two cents.
I agree with that too. Very expensive to go to any live sporting event these days unless the team sucks and you can buy cheap on secondary market. Which I do for 49ers games just for some fun now and then.
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  #115  
Old 07-13-2018, 09:48 AM
mzh mzh is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
I agree with that too. Very expensive to go to any live sporting event these days unless the team sucks and you can buy cheap on secondary market. Which I do for 49ers games just for some fun now and then.
Yeah, and even that's with the fact that from what I understand both the Yorks and the new stadium are pretty strongly reviled by a substantial core of the 49ers fanbase, no?

Part of what sealed the deal for me as a real die hard fan, and I'm sure this is true for many of you guys too, was that when I was in middle school and high school it was super easy for me to just hop on the red line after school and buy a ticket for $10 to see the game. This is when they were pretty competitive year after year too, so it wasn't for a lack of demand, either. That's what got me hooked, and with regard to Lip's point, I really strongly hope that should the Sox be good in the relatively near future, they choose to market themselves as an easier, cheaper, but equally fun alternative to dropping $400 on a night at Wrigley. Make it something that people don't think about as a special occasion, and you'll have a good, dedicated fanbase.
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