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  #1  
Old 11-19-2019, 02:46 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Default PipeDream: If you could take back one move . . . ?

While we drudge through yet another offseason, I thought this may be a nice conversation thread. If you could take back one move (trade / FA signing / hiring firing / etc) in the history of the Franchise what would it be?

This is a tough one for me, but as much as I absolutely loved Jim Thome and that deal to acquire him after the World Series in 2005, I still have bad feelings about letting Frank Thomas walk that offseason. If ever there was a player to have been a White Sox for life, it should have been him.
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2019, 02:51 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Obviously Tatis for Shields. Congrats you've just started another thread about that trade.

Assuming that one is retired (the way Arizona State can no longer win best party school), I would probably do a fire sale in late July of 2009.
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:07 PM
longtimefan longtimefan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Obviously Tatis for Shields.....
I second the Tatis jr boneheaded move. Not only for losing Tatis but now we might own the "stupidest trade ever" award surpassing the Cubs Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio blunder.
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:18 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Obviously Tatis for Shields. Congrats you've just started another thread about that trade.

Assuming that one is retired (the way Arizona State can no longer win best party school), I would probably do a fire sale in late July of 2009.
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I second the Tatis jr boneheaded move. Not only for losing Tatis but now we might own the "stupidest trade ever" award surpassing the Cubs Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio blunder.
Why was that a dumb move? At the time of the trade, Tatis was not on anyone's radar. He only had a name, but had not shown anything to go with his name.

20/20 does not make a deal a bad one.
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Old 11-19-2019, 06:04 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Why was that a dumb move? At the time of the trade, Tatis was not on anyone's radar. He only had a name, but had not shown anything to go with his name.

20/20 does not make a deal a bad one.
I gotta give credit where credit is due on this one. Tragg said that getting rid of Tatis would bite the Sox in the ass even before Shields’s flight landed.
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:08 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Why was that a dumb move? At the time of the trade, Tatis was not on anyone's radar. He only had a name, but had not shown anything to go with his name.

20/20 does not make a deal a bad one.
Ad naseum, but that's a completely false statement. In a previous thread I pulled two separate articles from the time lambasting the Sox for giving up Tatis, one from ESPN and another from Baseball America.

Edit: Also, hindsight doesn't make a move bad? Are you kidding? He's being paid to have foresight.
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2019, 03:10 PM
longtimefan longtimefan is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Ad naseum, but that's a completely false statement. In a previous thread I pulled two separate articles from the time lambasting the Sox for giving up Tatis, one from ESPN and another from Baseball America.

Edit: Also, hindsight doesn't make a move bad? Are you kidding? He's being paid to have foresight.
Also, the MLB channel analysts talked at length about Tatis jr and said that it was clear he had talent before he was dealt by the Sox.
The other point is Shields pitched poorly before the trade was even made. It was obvious he was no longer the pitcher he once was.
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2019, 10:33 PM
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Brian26 Brian26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Why was that a dumb move? At the time of the trade, Tatis was not on anyone's radar. He only had a name, but had not shown anything to go with his name.

20/20 does not make a deal a bad one.
Well, obviously he was on the Padres radar.
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:10 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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After the 1959 season when Veeck traded Norm Cash along with John Romano and Bubba Phillips to the Indians for Minnie Minoso and a couple of journeymen. At the time it was great to have Minnie back on the Southside but he was aging and had a fine season in 1960 but started to decline after that. Cash and Romano went on to have very good careers with Cash hitting almost 400 homers and winning a Batting Championship.

Veeck made 2 other clunker trades that off season trading away Earl Battey and Don Mincher to the old Senators for aging Roy Sievers and swapping Johnny Callison to the Phillies for Gene Freese.

Those 3 trades are probably the worst in Sox history.

What is amazing dispite those trades is that in a few years the Sox went on a roll in 63, 64 and 65 and IIRC won more games than any other team in MLB with 287 wins (94,98,95) but finished second all 3 years. This was accomplished with GM Ed Short making some very good trades bringing guys like Tommy John, Hoyt Wilhelm, Pete Ward and Juan Pizzaro to Comiskey Park.
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:16 PM
fungo bat fungo bat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLE NELL View Post
After the 1959 season when Veeck traded Norm Cash along with John Romano and Bubba Phillips to the Indians for Minnie Minoso and a couple of journeymen. At the time it was great to have Minnie back on the Southside but he was aging and had a fine season in 1960 but started to decline after that. Cash and Romano went on to have very good careers with Cash hitting almost 400 homers and winning a Batting Championship.

Veeck made 2 other clunker trades that off season trading away Earl Battey and Don Mincher to the old Senators for aging Roy Sievers and swapping Johnny Callison to the Phillies for Gene Freese.

Those 3 trades are probably the worst in Sox history.

What is amazing dispite those trades is that in a few years the Sox went on a roll in 63, 64 and 65 and IIRC won more games than any other team in MLB with 287 wins (94,98,95) but finished second all 3 years. This was accomplished with GM Ed Short making some very good trades bringing guys like Tommy John, Hoyt Wilhelm, Pete Ward and Juan Pizzaro to Comiskey Park.
Little Nell, you and I go back a few years. And yes, as much as I liked and admired Veeck these moves undermined the Sox for a few years, until we sent Aparicio and Al Smith to Baltimore after the '62 season in exchange for Ron Hansen, Pete Ward, Hoyt Wilhelm and Dave Nicholson.

A few years later the Sox front office made another major blunder, cutting a young local boy, Denny McClain and keeping Bruce Howard instead.
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  #11  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:04 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
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Originally Posted by fungo bat View Post
Little Nell, you and I go back a few years. And yes, as much as I liked and admired Veeck these moves undermined the Sox for a few years, until we sent Aparicio and Al Smith to Baltimore after the '62 season in exchange for Ron Hansen, Pete Ward, Hoyt Wilhelm and Dave Nicholson.

A few years later the Sox front office made another major blunder, cutting a young local boy, Denny McClain and keeping Bruce Howard instead.
I was going to mention the McClain-Howard thing but I figured I rambled on a bit too much with ancient history.
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:11 PM
JermaineDye05 JermaineDye05 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Obviously Tatis for Shields. Congrats you've just started another thread about that trade.

Assuming that one is retired (the way Arizona State can no longer win best party school), I would probably do a fire sale in late July of 2009.
I’m sure that will be in there, since that is obviously freshest in everyone’s memory. But there are many other moves in the history of this franchise that I’m sure many fans wish they could take back such as Disco Demolition, the hiring of Robin Ventura, the signing of Adam Dunn, etc.
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:05 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Bobby Bonilla.

Shoulda kept him.
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:26 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Obviously the Shields deal is there, although it won't get the the Padres to the World Series the way Lou Brock did the Cardinals after the Cubs trade. I don't know what would have happened to the White Sox if they hadn't traded Tatis.

But they might be in better position with fans in Chicago if they had signed Scott Feldman after the 2012 season. That move very well could have kept the Cubs from winning the 2016 World Series. Maybe the White Sox could have gotten something for Feldman at the trade deadline. Maybe the Cubs could have prevented the White Sox from winning the 2005 World Series by going somewhere other than Karchner for relief with Garland as the price. Garland's career year was huge for the White Sox.

You really don't know what would happen if you take back a move or you change the past in a slight way, as Ray Bradbury discusses in A Sound of Thunder and Harlan Ellison put forth in the Outer Limits, only to be stolen for the the Terminator franchise. Every decision leads to different futures, not just the obvious ones, like the Phillies drafting Simeon High School outfield Jeff Jackson with the fourth pick in 1989 before the White Sox picked Auburn slugger Frank Thomas.
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  #15  
Old 11-19-2019, 03:59 PM
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Firing Tony LaRussa -- or hiring Hawk to be GM (who then fired LaRussa).
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