White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


View Poll Results: When Should Eloy Jimenez Be Called Up?
Immediately 30 27.78%
Spring, 2019 39 36.11%
September 1st 2018 27 25.00%
When they run out of churros in Charlotte 12 11.11%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08-06-2018, 10:53 AM
voodoochile's Avatar
voodoochile voodoochile is offline
Soda Jerk/U.P.W./Lester Pooh Bear
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 55,242
Blog Entries: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FielderJones View Post
If the Brewers can just manage to hang around, that series is going to be huge. Those three games will be the Sox playoffs.
That's a fun thought, but I don't agree that Jimenez should be called up with that thought in mind. I think he should be called up when he's ready and if they are planning on calling him up when rosters expand I see nothing wrong with calling him up immediately since the service time hit is the same and more AB against MLB pitching would be better for him.
__________________

Riding shotgun on the Sox bandwagon since before there was an Internet...
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-06-2018, 03:26 PM
DumpJerry's Avatar
DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
Tom Feargal Hagen
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The hearts and minds of Sox fans on 10-26-05
Posts: 27,681
Default

Former NFL Coach Marv Levy once said "the first time I listen to the fans in the stands, I'll be sitting with them."

Service time is the 8,000,000,000 pound Gorilla in the room. It is the immovable reason for not a 2018 call-up (unless we go on a tear of no more loses and become contenders for a 92-70 record).
__________________


2020....2020.....2020....2020....2020.....
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 08-06-2018, 04:03 PM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,806
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Former NFL Coach Marv Levy once said "the first time I listen to the fans in the stands, I'll be sitting with them."

Service time is the 8,000,000,000 pound Gorilla in the room. It is the immovable reason for not a 2018 call-up (unless we go on a tear of no more loses and become contenders for a 92-70 record).
The flip side of that is you're wasting his development window as he languishes against lesser competition he is simply overmatching. You're also possibly losing time in his peak physical form. And as I stated earlier, it's risky because holding a player back despite doing so much can both damage his psychy as well as enrage him. People are so concerned with the service time that they're MAKING it important. As I see it, that window is all we're going to get out of Eloy if we keep holding him back.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 08-06-2018, 05:49 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Logan Square
Posts: 1,067
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
The flip side of that is you're wasting his development window as he languishes against lesser competition he is simply overmatching. You're also possibly losing time in his peak physical form. And as I stated earlier, it's risky because holding a player back despite doing so much can both damage his psychy as well as enrage him. People are so concerned with the service time that they're MAKING it important. As I see it, that window is all we're going to get out of Eloy if we keep holding him back.
That's kind of where I'm at. I'm not among the pitchfork crowd and don't really care that much either way, but I do think there's some merit to the argument that there does exist a "too long." That could lead him to start pressing, developing poor habits, a bad attitude, etc. If he's ready, bring him up and let him acclimate to life in Chicago, develop a rapport with his teammates and the coaching staff, and most importantly, get a prolonged taste of MLB pitching. He may very well struggle for his first season so let it be one in which there isn't any pressure or expectations. We're watching Moncada go through it now and hopefully he'll be better for it in '19.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 08-06-2018, 06:24 PM
DumpJerry's Avatar
DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
Tom Feargal Hagen
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The hearts and minds of Sox fans on 10-26-05
Posts: 27,681
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
The flip side of that is you're wasting his development window as he languishes against lesser competition he is simply overmatching. You're also possibly losing time in his peak physical form. And as I stated earlier, it's risky because holding a player back despite doing so much can both damage his psychy as well as enrage him. People are so concerned with the service time that they're MAKING it important. As I see it, that window is all we're going to get out of Eloy if we keep holding him back.
Great. So when we become a contender, Eloy will be on the downslide of his career already. Great trade, Rick.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 08-06-2018, 06:33 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In a Field
Posts: 6,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
The flip side of that is you're wasting his development window as he languishes against lesser competition he is simply overmatching. You're also possibly losing time in his peak physical form. And as I stated earlier, it's risky because holding a player back despite doing so much can both damage his psychy as well as enrage him. People are so concerned with the service time that they're MAKING it important. As I see it, that window is all we're going to get out of Eloy if we keep holding him back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
That's kind of where I'm at. I'm not among the pitchfork crowd and don't really care that much either way, but I do think there's some merit to the argument that there does exist a "too long." That could lead him to start pressing, developing poor habits, a bad attitude, etc. If he's ready, bring him up and let him acclimate to life in Chicago, develop a rapport with his teammates and the coaching staff, and most importantly, get a prolonged taste of MLB pitching. He may very well struggle for his first season so let it be one in which there isn't any pressure or expectations. We're watching Moncada go through it now and hopefully he'll be better for it in '19.
Name a player who has spent extra time in the minors ever complained that this extra time stunted his MLB development.
__________________
She's the foundation I lean on, My woman, my WIFE.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 08-06-2018, 07:13 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 19,846
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulwny View Post
Name a player who has spent extra time in the minors ever complained that this extra time stunted his MLB development.
This doesnít describe that situation, but I think the classic case of a player being kept down too long - to the detriment of the team - was Frank Thomas.

He and many others believed he was ready for the majors during 1990 Spring Training. Moreover, first base was an area of real need - Carlos Martinez and Steve Lyons both managed to produce sub-.600 OPS - and given that the team otherwise was clicking on all cylinders but doing so without much thump in the middle of the lineup, having Frank on the team for more than just August and September might have made the Sox even more competitive with Oakland going into the stretch drive. Maybe having Frank, and making the race closer, puts the Sox into a position to buy at the trade deadline.

But I donít think thereís anything that the 1990 and 2018 White Sox have in common.

Letís hope Eloy has a lot in common with Frank, though!
__________________
The universe is the practical joke of the General at the expense of the Particular, quoth Frater Perdurabo, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow. Others laughed, seeing the Universal Joke. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though FRATER laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 08-06-2018, 07:25 PM
Paulwny Paulwny is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In a Field
Posts: 6,623
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
This doesnít describe that situation, but I think the classic case of a player being kept down too long - to the detriment of the team - was Frank Thomas.

He and many others believed he was ready for the majors during 1990 Spring Training. Moreover, first base was an area of real need - Carlos Martinez and Steve Lyons both managed to produce sub-.600 OPS - and given that the team otherwise was clicking on all cylinders but doing so without much thump in the middle of the lineup, having Frank on the team for more than just August and September might have made the Sox even more competitive with Oakland going into the stretch drive. Maybe having Frank, and making the race closer, puts the Sox into a position to buy at the trade deadline.

But I donít think thereís anything that the 1990 and 2018 White Sox have in common.

Letís hope Eloy has a lot in common with Frank, though!
I agree with your statement. Blandman and Chappas were stating that extra time in the minors might hurt his development. It sure didn't hurt Frank, but it did possibly hurt the Sox not calling him up earlier.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 08-06-2018, 09:22 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Western Suburbs
Posts: 3,959
Default

He deserves to be up here. Service time be damned because if you believe this current ownership will not pay the freight for players then he's gone anyway.


Show faith in him and maybe someday down the road he may show faith in the organization.
__________________
ďThere were a few hard rules, but everybody was unique, and he understood that. Georgeís great strength was he didnít overcoach. Thereís no place for panic on the mound.Ē - Jim Palmer on George Bamberger ďArms and the man,Ē Sports Illustrated, April 19, 2004
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 08-06-2018, 09:28 PM
IronFisk's Avatar
IronFisk IronFisk is offline
WSI Personality
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Clown Point, IN
Posts: 1,117
Default

If my weak memory serves me right, didn't Crede languish in the minors too long? Didn't seem to hurt him (injuries took care of that).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 08-07-2018, 12:20 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 19,846
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronFisk View Post
If my weak memory serves me right, didn't Crede languish in the minors too long? Didn't seem to hurt him (injuries took care of that).
I also recall Crede having some struggles at the plate even through much of 2005; he had some big hits in 2004 but really seemed to peak late in 2005 and throughout 2006.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 08-07-2018, 08:22 AM
blurry blurry is online now
WSI Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 435
Default

Crede cut down on his K's and hit the ball harder in 2006, which brought him to an all star level for third basemen as his glove was very good. But then he hurt his back and that was that, sadly.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 08-08-2018, 09:52 AM
DumpJerry's Avatar
DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
Tom Feargal Hagen
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The hearts and minds of Sox fans on 10-26-05
Posts: 27,681
Default

6<7.

/close thread.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:19 AM
blandman blandman is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,806
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
6<7.

/close thread.
20>7 + jilted fanbase
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 08-08-2018, 12:01 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blandman View Post
20>7 + jilted fanbase
The "fanbase" points to me are somewhat silly. The team is rebuilding. The only real points of concern are/should be what maximizes the team's long-term success. I understand the argument that bringing up Eloy now may accelerate the timeline to him being a long-term contributor, as well as the argument that it doesn't really do much to his 2020 contribution to bring him up now v next year.

What makes absolutely no sense to me is a concern that not bringing him up disappoints/"jilts" the fanbase. Personally I hope that's not even on the list of boxes in Hahn's checklist or on his mind. ALL that matters is what maximizes Eloy's success in 2020 and beyond. I guarantee you any "jilting" will be long forgotten if he's raking in '20 and any "unjilting" caused by bringing him up will similarly be forgotten and fans will be "rejilted" in '20 if he's struggling.

Case in point: Moncada. Had he been kept down end of last year and been better off now for it (by possibly working on cutting down Ks and swinging at more strikes), fans would have been disappointed then and happy now. Instead because he's struggling no one really says "well we got to see him last year."

All that matters is the development. If you develop them (prospects), they (fans) will come.
__________________
"You don't quit. You don't go home before it's time. You don't come out of a game, even if you are in pain and feel as if you can't go one more step"
"Never give up, Never, never, never give up."
- Luther Head after Elite 8 win v. Arizona
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.