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  #16  
Old 05-02-2019, 12:51 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
I wasn't as disappointed in Nova as I was with Rodon in the first game. It's a little sobering that as well as Rodon has pitched at times this year, he left today with an ERA over 5. Still, I'm not sure how the Sox lost the first game.
This simply may be the best that Rodon turns out to be (at least with the Sox before he leaves via free agency), a guy with great stuff who simply can't put it all together in part because of the numerous injuries.

With apologies to Kenny, "He is what he is..."
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  #17  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:38 AM
TDog TDog is online now
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
This simply may be the best that Rodon turns out to be (at least with the Sox before he leaves via free agency), a guy with great stuff who simply can't put it all together in part because of the numerous injuries.

With apologies to Kenny, "He is what he is..."

I wouldn't go that far. But I also wouldn't assume any of the White Sox pitching prospects will be any better. They have all had their issues with injuries and or consistency. Even Cease hasn't been unhittable for Charlotte.
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  #18  
Old 05-02-2019, 05:50 AM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Iím not certain the pitching will be fine - itís never a sure thing - but even with Kopech and Dunning rehabbing, our long-term starting pitching outlook is pretty good. I still think weíll end up with enough starting pitching (if there can be such a thing) among Rodon, Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Dunning, Hansen and Flores, and perhaps one or two others. But itís also possible that the last three wonít fully blossom until Rodon is about to leave as a free agent.

I also think there are enough arms - either currently pitching in relief or starters who eventually are moved to relief roles - in the system that enough of them can populate an above-average bullpen.

I also think what we currently have now in the system will be enough to provide at least a capable major league hitter - if not better - at every fielding position. And I think weíll have enough outfield and eventually infield prospect surplus to acquire an above-average player or pitcher.

But we arenít there yet. And we probably wonít be there in 2020, either. Weíll have a better idea once Cease, Collins, Robert, and Madrigal are in the majors, and Kopech is back. Players take time to develop and we can either choose to be patient, or not. Iím choosing patience but Iíll admit it isnít easy. Still, while I think weíll struggle this year, I think weíll be around .500 in 2020 and win 90ish games in 2021.
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  #19  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:50 AM
Railsplitter Railsplitter is offline
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Game One:
Game Two:
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  #20  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:35 AM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I still see much more good news than bad news with this team-

I see some nice developments at the "front end" of the bullpen, I think Fulmer looks very promising as a bullpen arm- great stuff, much more in control than he has been, let him go "balls out" for an inning or two- much better fit than being a starter. Marshall and Vieira both looked good- if these 3 can help solve for the 6th/7th innings- to get to Herrera and Colome- that will be a nice bullpen- Bummer looked good as well. There are folks on the site that seem to quickly write off young prospects when they've struggled in their first year or two- I think that's a big mistake- for example Vieira is 25 yo, and hits almost 100 mph on the gun- that's a guy worth developing. And after struggling with Seattle, the White Sox seemed to have helped him with his control issues.

I think Alonso will come around and be a nice LH hitter for us- and I just like the guy- very down to earth and accountable.

I think Delmonico made the worst play on an easy fly ball to left field that I've ever witnessed in a major league game (or any game > little league), I will be very happy when a few more prospects make it to the bigs and we can put him, Palka, Sanchez, Engel. etc. in the rearview mirror. (not to mention pulling back and not attempting a bunt on a squeeze play- pathetic).

Rentaria fell in love with the squeeze bunt for some reason yesterday- Ricky is a nice guy- but I really hope they replace him with Vizquel for 2020- he's not showing any ability to develop a focused, sharp, fundamentally sound team, and his tactics are just head scratchers.

I love Tim Anderson- but really disappointed in his defense- part of an overall dynamic of extending 2-3 innings each game for the opponent with our defensive lapses- escalating pitch counts, putting more pressure on the bullpen, etc.
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  #21  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:51 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Just some random thoughts on the DH:

* The first game was the third game this year the Sox had a lead in the 7th inning or later and lost.

* The second game was the fourth game this year the Sox trailed in the 7th inning or later and won.
Curious: what are the records like for the other 29 teams involving the Magical Seventh Inning? Are the Sox near the median or are they at the low end?
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  #22  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:15 AM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I still see much more good news than bad news with this team-

I see some nice developments at the "front end" of the bullpen, I think Fulmer looks very promising as a bullpen arm- great stuff, much more in control than he has been, let him go "balls out" for an inning or two- much better fit than being a starter. Marshall and Vieira both looked good- if these 3 can help solve for the 6th/7th innings- to get to Herrera and Colome- that will be a nice bullpen- Bummer looked good as well. There are folks on the site that seem to quickly write off young prospects when they've struggled in their first year or two- I think that's a big mistake- for example Vieira is 25 yo, and hits almost 100 mph on the gun- that's a guy worth developing. And after struggling with Seattle, the White Sox seemed to have helped him with his control issues.

I think Alonso will come around and be a nice LH hitter for us- and I just like the guy- very down to earth and accountable.

I think Delmonico made the worst play on an easy fly ball to left field that I've ever witnessed in a major league game (or any game > little league), I will be very happy when a few more prospects make it to the bigs and we can put him, Palka, Sanchez, Engel. etc. in the rearview mirror. (not to mention pulling back and not attempting a bunt on a squeeze play- pathetic).

Rentaria fell in love with the squeeze bunt for some reason yesterday- Ricky is a nice guy- but I really hope they replace him with Vizquel for 2020- he's not showing any ability to develop a focused, sharp, fundamentally sound team, and his tactics are just head scratchers.

I love Tim Anderson- but really disappointed in his defense- part of an overall dynamic of extending 2-3 innings each game for the opponent with our defensive lapses- escalating pitch counts, putting more pressure on the bullpen, etc.
Good post.

I also can't wait to see the last of these players. The good news is that the Sox have plenty of good OF prospects making good progress through the system. The bad news is that they're all just getting their feet wet at AA and are more than a year away from the big leagues. Maybe Robert flies through the system and we see him in Chicago before too long, but I don't expect any of the other guys to be ready for opening day 2020. So that'll mean enduring more clown show antics in the outfield for the near future.
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  #23  
Old 05-02-2019, 09:17 AM
Dan H Dan H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Just some random thoughts on the DH:

* The first game was the third game this year the Sox had a lead in the 7th inning or later and lost.

* The second game was the fourth game this year the Sox trailed in the 7th inning or later and won.

* Ivan Nova is finished, another notch in the "Rick Hahn Haters" belt.

* Tim Anderson now with eight errors in the first 28 games.

* Sox made four more errors in the DH and screwed up a safety squeeze situation. Fundamentals folks...it's not that hard.

Considering everything, it was nice to get a split.
Overall that was two games of bad baseball. Sox lucky to get a split.

I was sitting in the right field seats and got a great view of the second game homer Nova gave up in the sixth. I've seen fighter jets move slower.
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  #24  
Old 05-02-2019, 11:17 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
Curious: what are the records like for the other 29 teams involving the Magical Seventh Inning? Are the Sox near the median or are they at the low end?
Dump: If there was an easy way to find out these type of things I'd do it. But there isn't at least that I know of. I'd have to go through the box scores of every game for every team and that's just not possible.

I follow the Sox, one team in this area so it is relatively easy.

I know last year they blew 16 games where they took a lead into the 7th inning and lost. How that translates out to this year 3/28 again I can't say.

It is encouraging that they actually have won more games like this than they have lost.

It's been a long time since the Sox had a lock down bullpen that usually protected late inning leads.
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  #25  
Old 05-02-2019, 11:31 AM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Dump: If there was an easy way to find out these type of things I'd do it. But there isn't at least that I know of. I'd have to go through the box scores of every game for every team and that's just not possible.

I follow the Sox, one team in this area so it is relatively easy.

I know last year they blew 16 games where they took a lead into the 7th inning and lost. How that translates out to this year 3/28 again I can't say.

It is encouraging that they actually have won more games like this than they have lost.

It's been a long time since the Sox had a lock down bullpen that usually protected late inning leads.
So, we don't know if the Sox are like any other team when it comes to losing after leading post 7th Inning or if they really suck when compared to the rest of MLB. To throw out a stat like that without full context is nothing more than a red herring.
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  #26  
Old 05-02-2019, 11:46 AM
Heffalump Heffalump is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Kluber's injury is a game changer here for the AL Central.

If the Sox even want to pretend to give this a run, can't continue to **** around with Batting Tee Nova out there

Cut your loses now, I don't care. Next man up.

Same goes for Delmonico and Sanchez, keep turning this roster over.

Keuchel....DO IT....DO IT
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  #27  
Old 05-02-2019, 11:47 AM
longtimefan longtimefan is offline
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I think Delmonico made the worst play on an easy fly ball to left field that I've ever witnessed .............
I did the exact same thing in a game...wait I was in little league at the time.
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  #28  
Old 05-02-2019, 11:54 AM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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So, we don't know if the Sox are like any other team when it comes to losing after leading post 7th Inning or if they really suck when compared to the rest of MLB. To throw out a stat like that without full context is nothing more than a red herring.
I find it interesting, nothing more, nothing less.

Feel free to go through every box score for every team if you wish in order to get better context. Maybe you have the time to do so, I don't.

Unfortunately I also don't have the knowledge or the tools of how to do something like this in an efficient manner.

But rest assured I'll continue to follow and post how the Sox do in this category.

I do recall back when the Twins were winning all those division titles, it may have been in 2003 or 2004 that I just thought they had an incredible bullpen. I actually did go through all their box scores to see if my assumption was correct and it was...they only blew and lost four or five games for the season where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later. A big reason why they were able to win. But as stated that took A LOT of time and I just don't have that to give.

But if you do, Dump, then be my guest.
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2019, 12:54 PM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post


I think Delmonico made the worst play on an easy fly ball to left field that I've ever witnessed in a major league game (or any game > little league), I will be very happy when a few more prospects make it to the bigs and we can put him, Palka, Sanchez, Engel. etc. in the rearview mirror. (not to mention pulling back and not attempting a bunt on a squeeze play- pathetic).
It was a safety, not a suicide, squeeze per RR. The onus is on the runner to not take more than a safe lead until the ball is down. Abreu's fault, not Delmonico's.
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  #30  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:07 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
Dump: If there was an easy way to find out these type of things I'd do it.
I am breaking my board silence to respond here, because this annual notion is easily debunked, and I literally did it with a 30-second Google search, which leads to this wonderful page with all sorts of search functions for your use:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...19&team_id=ANY

I will, however, save you the trouble. The annual gripe about losing games after holding leads in the 7th inning and beyond is wrong. Some years the Sox outperform the league average. Some years they underperform. They are not over the past 5, 10+, whatever years significantly any different from the average team.

That was *really* easy to find and disprove after all these years, and I only wish I had taken the trouble a long time ago.

I do not expect that this will change the continued harping on this point, because facts are no longer as important as feelings in our world.

If this post was on Deadspin, I'd accept my 247 Kinja stars.
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