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  #31  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:18 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
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Originally Posted by Heffalump View Post
Keuchel....DO IT....DO IT
....as long they do it after June 4. I'd rather the Sox not give up their 2nd round (45th overall) draft pick.
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  #32  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:22 PM
Plain White T Plain White T is offline
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Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
I find it interesting, nothing more, nothing less.

Feel free to go through every box score for every team if you wish in order to get better context. Maybe you have the time to do so, I don't.

Unfortunately I also don't have the knowledge or the tools of how to do something like this in an efficient manner.

But rest assured I'll continue to follow and post how the Sox do in this category.

I do recall back when the Twins were winning all those division titles, it may have been in 2003 or 2004 that I just thought they had an incredible bullpen. I actually did go through all their box scores to see if my assumption was correct and it was...they only blew and lost four or five games for the season where they took a lead into the 7th inning or later. A big reason why they were able to win. But as stated that took A LOT of time and I just don't have that to give.

But if you do, Dump, then be my guest.
The numbers by themselves mean nothing. How many games have they taken the lead to the 7th? What about games they lead going into the 7th, lost the lead but came back to win. Where does that game fall? Again, what’s the league wide winning percentage taking the lead into the 7th? The fact that they’ve won more than they’ve lost means nothing either. Maybe they’ve trailed in 20 games and lead in only eight going into the 7th. If that were the case, you would expect more wins than losses. Without context, they are just numbers. They have little meaning and tell us even less.
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  #33  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:29 PM
Plain White T Plain White T is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I am breaking my board silence to respond here, because this annual notion is easily debunked, and I literally did it with a 30-second Google search, which leads to this wonderful page with all sorts of search functions for your use:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...19&team_id=ANY

I will, however, save you the trouble. The annual gripe about losing games after holding leads in the 7th inning and beyond is wrong. Some years the Sox outperform the league average. Some years they underperform. They are not over the past 5, 10+, whatever years significantly any different from the average team.

That was *really* easy to find and disprove after all these years, and I only wish I had taken the trouble a long time ago.

I do not expect that this will change the continued harping on this point, because facts are no longer as important as feelings in our world.

If this post was on Deadspin, I'd accept my 247 Kinja stars.
Thank you!
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  #34  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:46 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I am breaking my board silence to respond here, because this annual notion is easily debunked, and I literally did it with a 30-second Google search, which leads to this wonderful page with all sorts of search functions for your use:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...19&team_id=ANY

I will, however, save you the trouble. The annual gripe about losing games after holding leads in the 7th inning and beyond is wrong. Some years the Sox outperform the league average. Some years they underperform. They are not over the past 5, 10+, whatever years significantly any different from the average team.

That was *really* easy to find and disprove after all these years, and I only wish I had taken the trouble a long time ago.

I do not expect that this will change the continued harping on this point, because facts are no longer as important as feelings in our world.

If this post was on Deadspin, I'd accept my 247 Kinja stars.



Thanks Kittle! Your presence around here is missed.
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  #35  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:53 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I am breaking my board silence to respond here, because this annual notion is easily debunked, and I literally did it with a 30-second Google search, which leads to this wonderful page with all sorts of search functions for your use:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...19&team_id=ANY

I will, however, save you the trouble. The annual gripe about losing games after holding leads in the 7th inning and beyond is wrong. Some years the Sox outperform the league average. Some years they underperform. They are not over the past 5, 10+, whatever years significantly any different from the average team.

That was *really* easy to find and disprove after all these years, and I only wish I had taken the trouble a long time ago.

I do not expect that this will change the continued harping on this point, because facts are no longer as important as feelings in our world.

If this post was on Deadspin, I'd accept my 247 Kinja stars.
Thank you- I remember another post that addressed the same argument that the White Sox are incompetent in regards to player health, injuries, etc. Turns out we're right around the league average for days on the IL, etc.
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  #36  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:07 PM
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DumpJerry DumpJerry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I am breaking my board silence to respond here, because this annual notion is easily debunked, and I literally did it with a 30-second Google search, which leads to this wonderful page with all sorts of search functions for your use:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...19&team_id=ANY

I will, however, save you the trouble. The annual gripe about losing games after holding leads in the 7th inning and beyond is wrong. Some years the Sox outperform the league average. Some years they underperform. They are not over the past 5, 10+, whatever years significantly any different from the average team.

That was *really* easy to find and disprove after all these years, and I only wish I had taken the trouble a long time ago.

I do not expect that this will change the continued harping on this point, because facts are no longer as important as feelings in our world.

If this post was on Deadspin, I'd accept my 247 Kinja stars.
Thanks Kittle. I knew a fellow Barrister would want to see a fact-based argument.
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  #37  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:32 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by LoveYourSuit View Post
Kluber's injury is a game changer here for the AL Central.

If the Sox even want to pretend to give this a run, can't continue to **** around with Batting Tee Nova out there

Cut your loses now, I don't care. Next man up.

Same goes for Delmonico and Sanchez, keep turning this roster over.
The next men up for the rotation, other than Cease who is simply not major league ready anyway, are far far far worse than what we've been throwing out there. The White Sox did a horrible job of building organizational depth to weather the inevitable returns from Giolito (ineffectiveness), Rodon (constant injury), and the trio of Banuelos, Santana, and Nova. There are no more arms to throw out there. At least not any that are likely to be better than those guys. On the one hand, if you're trying to lose that makes sense. But it certainly is a crappy situation to put yourself in on purpose.

Last edited by blandman; 05-02-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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  #38  
Old 05-02-2019, 02:35 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I am breaking my board silence to respond here, because this annual notion is easily debunked, and I literally did it with a 30-second Google search, which leads to this wonderful page with all sorts of search functions for your use:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...19&team_id=ANY

I will, however, save you the trouble. The annual gripe about losing games after holding leads in the 7th inning and beyond is wrong. Some years the Sox outperform the league average. Some years they underperform. They are not over the past 5, 10+, whatever years significantly any different from the average team.

That was *really* easy to find and disprove after all these years, and I only wish I had taken the trouble a long time ago.

I do not expect that this will change the continued harping on this point, because facts are no longer as important as feelings in our world.

If this post was on Deadspin, I'd accept my 247 Kinja stars.
Have the expectations dropped so far that we're defending badly built bullpens as "they'll average out to league average over time"?

Nobody wins with a bad bullpen. Nobody. Especially not in today's MLB, where bullpens are throwing almost as many innings as starters. If your bullpen is not elite, you're not trying to win.
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  #39  
Old 05-02-2019, 03:29 PM
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Chez Chez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I am breaking my board silence to respond here, because this annual notion is easily debunked, and I literally did it with a 30-second Google search, which leads to this wonderful page with all sorts of search functions for your use:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...19&team_id=ANY

I will, however, save you the trouble. The annual gripe about losing games after holding leads in the 7th inning and beyond is wrong. Some years the Sox outperform the league average. Some years they underperform. They are not over the past 5, 10+, whatever years significantly any different from the average team.

That was *really* easy to find and disprove after all these years, and I only wish I had taken the trouble a long time ago.

I do not expect that this will change the continued harping on this point, because facts are no longer as important as feelings in our world.

If this post was on Deadspin, I'd accept my 247 Kinja stars.
Good to see a Kittle42 post again.
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  #40  
Old 05-02-2019, 03:33 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Have the expectations dropped so far that we're defending badly built bullpens as "they'll average out to league average over time"?

Nobody wins with a bad bullpen. Nobody. Especially not in today's MLB, where bullpens are throwing almost as many innings as starters. If your bullpen is not elite, you're not trying to win.
The goalpost moving in the quoted post is quality. "Well" done?

The Indians were 91-71 last season with the 27th ranked bullpen by WAR and 25th by ERA. Either 91 wins isn't winning, winning a division isn't winning, they weren't trying to win, or you get to move the goalposts again, because the 2018 Indians winning the Central and having 91 wins seems to contradict "Nobody wins with a bad bullpen. Nobody."
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  #41  
Old 05-02-2019, 03:42 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
The goalpost moving in the quoted post is quality. "Well" done?

The Indians were 91-71 last season with the 27th ranked bullpen by WAR and 25th by ERA. Either 91 wins isn't winning, winning a division isn't winning, they weren't trying to win, or you get to move the goalposts again, because the 2018 Indians winning the Central and having 91 wins seems to contradict "Nobody wins with a bad bullpen. Nobody."
The Indians lost last year because they didn't have an elite pen.

They DID, however, go into the year thinking they had one. They won a ****ty division, but ultimately met their demise quickly because of the pen.

Citing an outlier isn't contrary evidence. Look at World Series pens since the Royals won. Then tell me what wins championships.
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  #42  
Old 05-02-2019, 03:54 PM
Tragg Tragg is offline
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The least bit of statistical analysis, not to mention the FO consider actually use some analytics, revealed Nova's deficiencies. Meanwhile Pitt, after dumping Nova and his ridiculous salary on the Sox, then signed Jordan Lyles, a better pitcher, at 1/5 of the price. Easier to make a lazy trade than to negotiate and sign. This stuff adds up...how can JR entrust the FO to sign a big ticket FA, when they put on clown-show after clown-shows with the cheaper guys?
Kudos to Yonder Alonso for bailing Renteria (one of the best managers in baseball, right?) out of his 9th inning madness.
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  #43  
Old 05-02-2019, 04:06 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
I am breaking my board silence to respond here, because this annual notion is easily debunked, and I literally did it with a 30-second Google search, which leads to this wonderful page with all sorts of search functions for your use:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...19&team_id=ANY

I will, however, save you the trouble. The annual gripe about losing games after holding leads in the 7th inning and beyond is wrong. Some years the Sox outperform the league average. Some years they underperform. They are not over the past 5, 10+, whatever years significantly any different from the average team.

That was *really* easy to find and disprove after all these years, and I only wish I had taken the trouble a long time ago.

I do not expect that this will change the continued harping on this point, because facts are no longer as important as feelings in our world.

If this post was on Deadspin, I'd accept my 247 Kinja stars.
Never said the Sox were above average or below average in blowing games late. Just pointing out what it is and the reality of things.

Sorry you and others don't like it. I'll continue to be doing it because it continues to impact the Sox just as games where they rally late impacts things (and I keep track of those as well...)
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  #44  
Old 05-02-2019, 04:07 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
Thank you- I remember another post that addressed the same argument that the White Sox are incompetent in regards to player health, injuries, etc. Turns out we're right around the league average for days on the IL, etc.
Tom: Need I post again for your edification what some others posted here about Herm and the way the Sox handle player injuries from their sources?

I'd be happy to do so if you like.
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  #45  
Old 05-02-2019, 04:09 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by blandman View Post
Have the expectations dropped so far that we're defending badly built bullpens as "they'll average out to league average over time"?

Nobody wins with a bad bullpen. Nobody. Especially not in today's MLB, where bullpens are throwing almost as many innings as starters. If your bullpen is not elite, you're not trying to win.
Very fair point, look at how well the bullpen performed in 2005 for the Sox...that was a big, big help.
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