White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 05-16-2019, 02:15 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 20,728
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight #24 View Post
Or they simply said "he can mash at AAA but will likely have some struggles as he adjusts to major league pitching. We'd like to get that out of the way and have him work on his D at the major league level/see what he can do in the field so that next year he's a) ready to hit and b) either improved on D or we know he can't/won't and can DH him when games actually matter."

This isn't a pitcher who can get ruined with an early callup. He's not going to get "ruined" by playing bad D (with the exception being that he shouldn't dive/run into walls/etc). He could improve (I doubt he's not getting personalized instruction on the side), and if he doesn't - it costs games which don't really matter at this point, but sets you up better for next year when they matter more.
How dare you post such a reasonable take.
__________________
The universe is the practical joke of the General at the expense of the Particular, quoth Frater Perdurabo, and laughed. The disciples nearest him wept, seeing the Universal Sorrow. Others laughed, seeing the Universal Joke. Others wept. Others laughed. Others wept because they couldn't see the Joke, and others laughed lest they should be thought not to see the Joke. But though FRATER laughed openly, he wept secretly; and really he neither laughed nor wept. Nor did he mean what he said.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 05-16-2019, 02:20 PM
LITTLE NELL LITTLE NELL is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sebring Florida
Posts: 11,272
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
I disagree- hit bat was 100% ready for MLB- and since we're in a rebuild year still- you don't keep a bat like that at AAA due to sub par defense.
Exactly.
__________________
Batting in the second position for the White Sox, number 2, the second baseman Nelson Fox.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 05-16-2019, 03:01 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 18,580
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBradley72 View Post
...
Kittle stumbled all around LF.
...

Interesting you should bring him up. Ron was a catcher at Gary Wirt. The Dodgers signed him as a catcher, and he suffered a broken neck in home plate collision in his first minor league game. After the Dodgers paid for his nexk surgery and ultimately released him, he made the White Sox with a tryout in the old park where he put on a a hitting display that included a line drive through one of the lower-deck arch-way openings behind the seats.

Kittle came up as a hitter. He hit 50 home runs for Edmonton in 1982. He wasn't going to stay in AAA to learn to hone his defense. He had been learning to learn to play the outfield in the minors and continuing at the major league level. He graces the cover of one of Charlie Lau's hitting instruction books. He is not on the cover of any book on outfield instruction. I don't know if anyone has ever asked him how he would have felt about simply being a DH after signing with the White Sox. It wasn't up to him, of course, but he worked hard to become a major league baseball player. I can't imagine he would blow off a learning a big part of playing the game.

I would question the future of any player who wasn't prepared to work hard to develop his skills, offensively or defensively, his future earnings potential notwithstanding. I would question a team that would limit a young healthy athlete by relegating him to DH. Jimenez is coming off an ankle injury, not a broken neck.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 05-16-2019, 04:00 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Interesting you should bring him up. Ron was a catcher at Gary Wirt. The Dodgers signed him as a catcher, and he suffered a broken neck in home plate collision in his first minor league game. After the Dodgers paid for his nexk surgery and ultimately released him, he made the White Sox with a tryout in the old park where he put on a a hitting display that included a line drive through one of the lower-deck arch-way openings behind the seats.

Kittle came up as a hitter. He hit 50 home runs for Edmonton in 1982. He wasn't going to stay in AAA to learn to hone his defense. He had been learning to learn to play the outfield in the minors and continuing at the major league level. He graces the cover of one of Charlie Lau's hitting instruction books. He is not on the cover of any book on outfield instruction. I don't know if anyone has ever asked him how he would have felt about simply being a DH after signing with the White Sox. It wasn't up to him, of course, but he worked hard to become a major league baseball player. I can't imagine he would blow off a learning a big part of playing the game.

I would question the future of any player who wasn't prepared to work hard to develop his skills, offensively or defensively, his future earnings potential notwithstanding. I would question a team that would limit a young healthy athlete by relegating him to DH. Jimenez is coming off an ankle injury, not a broken neck.
This assumes that hard work automatically equals success. There are millions of baseball players out there who worked really, really, really hard and still never developed adequate minimum competencies to reach the major leagues.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and let’s fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 05-16-2019, 04:06 PM
Flight #24 Flight #24 is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
How dare you post such a reasonable take.
Whoops, sorry, forgot myself for a minute! Won't let it happen again!
__________________
"You don't quit. You don't go home before it's time. You don't come out of a game, even if you are in pain and feel as if you can't go one more step"
"Never give up, Never, never, never give up."
- Luther Head after Elite 8 win v. Arizona
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 05-16-2019, 04:48 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 18,580
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
This assumes that hard work automatically equals success. There are millions of baseball players out there who worked really, really, really hard and still never developed adequate minimum competencies to reach the major leagues.
You're talking about a professional athlete with highly regarded athletic skills who has signed a huge long-term contract. You are talking about conceding that he will never be able to play defense, putting him in circumstances that many veteran accomplished hitters find to be more difficult than playing the field between at bats, even if they aren't very good in the field.

It really has to be anecdotal because when it's statistically analytical, it's selective although you insist there is no difference between a hitter's production as position player and a DH off the bench with only faith in your belief. You're talking about limiting this player's future and the team's flexibility because he he has defensive shortcomings for a team whose winning percentage you don't care about.

I don't believe Jimenez will ever reach his potential as a major league player if he is excused from the field. It amazes me that people who are so concerned about the White Sox track record in player development should advocate giving up on player development while insisting wins this year don't matter.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 05-16-2019, 05:12 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
You're talking about a professional athlete with highly regarded athletic skills.
Every player in the majors is a professional athlete with highly regarded skills. Lots of them work hard. Lots of them are still bad defenders despite the fact that they work hard.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 05-16-2019, 06:01 PM
TDog TDog is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Modesto, California
Posts: 18,580
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Every player in the majors is a professional athlete with highly regarded skills. Lots of them work hard. Lots of them are still bad defenders despite the fact that they work hard.
If you sign a player with no major league experience to the contract that Jimenez got and tell him he doesn't have to work hard to learn to play a position, I can't imagine that wouldn't have an impact on team chemistry.

But that isn't even my point.

The father in A Christmas Story describes the White Sox as a team of utility infielders. Now the team looks more like a team of designated hitters. That includes a couple of players who can't hit and even a few pitchers who can't pitch and probably couldn't hit but couldn't be any worse at hitting than pitching.

I find it incredible that people would be arguing to relegate Jimenez as a career designated hitter with all the limitations that come with it for both the team and the players. It isn't as if he's physically unable, having simply grown old, having broken his neck, having lost a thumb to mortar shell (sorry, they played the field), having had numerous knee surgeries, having had a hip replaced.

If Jimenez is so fragile that he can't play the outfield, he won't last long as a designated hitter, not as the hitter people expect him to be, anyway. A season where winning isn't important would seem a great time to develop Jimenez as a complete player.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05-16-2019, 07:07 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 12,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
If you sign a player with no major league experience to the contract that Jimenez got and tell him he doesn't have to work hard to learn to play a position, I can't imagine that wouldn't have an impact on team chemistry.

But that isn't even my point.

The father in A Christmas Story describes the White Sox as a team of utility infielders. Now the team looks more like a team of designated hitters. That includes a couple of players who can't hit and even a few pitchers who can't pitch and probably couldn't hit but couldn't be any worse at hitting than pitching.

I find it incredible that people would be arguing to relegate Jimenez as a career designated hitter with all the limitations that come with it for both the team and the players. It isn't as if he's physically unable, having simply grown old, having broken his neck, having lost a thumb to mortar shell (sorry, they played the field), having had numerous knee surgeries, having had a hip replaced.

If Jimenez is so fragile that he can't play the outfield, he won't last long as a designated hitter, not as the hitter people expect him to be, anyway. A season where winning isn't important would seem a great time to develop Jimenez as a complete player.
He sure looks physically unable to me. He’s slow. His routes are awful. There isn’t enough “hard work” in the world to turn him into an adequate outfielder. If he stays in LF, I hope he hits like Manny Ramirez, because he likely will be fielding like Manny Ramirez.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.