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  #1  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:05 AM
BainesHOF BainesHOF is offline
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Default Jack McDowell alleges LaRussa cheated at Comiskey

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/...b1dkja2jox1n10
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:13 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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And all he had to show for it was one lousy division title. At least the Astros played in two World Series and an ALCS.

When will Mark Buehrle be vindicated re: his claims of the Texas Rangers and their outfield lights?
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:29 AM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by BainesHOF View Post
I don't get how McDowell would be privy to something LaRussa did before McDowell joined the team? And it's not like those Sox teams in the '80s were known as offensive powerhouses.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:53 AM
Noneck Noneck is offline
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It's nice to see some unlove for larussa
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  #5  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:11 PM
hoosiersoxfan hoosiersoxfan is offline
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Originally Posted by WhiteSox5187 View Post
I don't get how McDowell would be privy to something LaRussa did before McDowell joined the team? And it's not like those Sox teams in the '80s were known as offensive powerhouses.
Maybe his teammates told him what had been going on?
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  #6  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:14 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Maybe this was common knowledge in the organization back then. I wonder if this was actually part of the reason LaRussa was let go.
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  #7  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:24 PM
WhiteSox5187 WhiteSox5187 is offline
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Originally Posted by hoosiersoxfan View Post
Maybe his teammates told him what had been going on?
Maybe, but the only years the Sox were in the top three in most offensive categories were '81, '82 and '83, and the Sox had a better OPS on the road those years. 1983 was the only year they had a substantially better OPS at home was in '83, but I think they moved the fences in that year, they also only scored two runs in the ALCS against Baltimore.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:57 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Maybe this was common knowledge in the organization back then. I wonder if this was actually part of the reason LaRussa was let go.

Or distorted knowledge. Harrelson's ego was the reason Harrelson fired LaRussa. He got the job hypercritical of LaRussa and his predecessor and made a priority out of doing things the way he always said they should be done, even if the rest of baseball thought he and his moves were a joke. LaRussa was always a good company man. He even tried to take the blame for Harrelson insisting Fisk play left (like turning his back on on an friend, Fisk said after starting a game in the Fenway outfield). With everything that came down after LaRussa left, all the White Sox who played for him in the White Sox leaving the organization, a nearly four-decade conspiracy of silence to protect him seems unlikely.

Many pitchers are obsessed with the idea that that signs are being stolen. Art Kusnyer tells the story (and it's briefly referenced in the body of this story) about catching Nolan Ryan's second no-hitter. He said that in the first inning, Ryan called him to the mound a couple of times to insist the Tigers were stealing his signs. The substance, without the storytelling art is that there was a guy in the Tiger Stadium upper deck crossing and uncrossing his legs, Ryan believed, to signal to the batter whether the pitch would be a fastball or curve. Kusnyer finally told him that with the stuff Ryan had, he could tell the hitters what was coming and they still wouldn't hit it. One can only speculate how that game would be different with fewer permitted mound visits.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:00 PM
Harry Chappas Harry Chappas is offline
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Weak on Black Jack's part. Nothing 'heroic' about taking a principled stance 30 years later just because it's the news of the moment.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:09 PM
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Weak on Black Jack's part. Nothing 'heroic' about taking a principled stance 30 years later just because it's the news of the moment.
Completely agree. I love Black Jack (I've got a McDowell 29 jersey), but this seems completely unnecessary and more than a bit personal with LaRussa.
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  #11  
Old 01-17-2020, 02:17 PM
Jollyroger2 Jollyroger2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Harry Chappas View Post
Weak on Black Jack's part. Nothing 'heroic' about taking a principled stance 30 years later just because it's the news of the moment.
Weak or not, it's pretty descriptive, and reinforces the narrative that this has been going on league-wide for some time. Probably only the tip of the iceberg with former players coming out and making revelations.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:35 PM
jshanahanjr jshanahanjr is offline
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Default Revenge of the 1990 White Sox

Black Jack is probably still pissed that the A's stole the 1990 division from our White Sox by using steroids.
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2020, 03:10 PM
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Black Jack is probably still pissed that the A's stole the 1990 division from our White Sox by using steroids.
It's also about damned time someone called out LaRussa for being front and center on the steroid scandal and raising questions about how else he might have cheated.
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Old 01-17-2020, 05:17 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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It's also about damned time someone called out LaRussa for being front and center on the steroid scandal and raising questions about how else he might have cheated.

His story, though, is simply a version of the accusations made against the White Sox in the 1970s and even the 1960s, before there was a Gatorade sign. This is a fairly common allegation made against a lot of teams. In 1970 or 1971, there was a game played under protest in Cleveland because the opposing manager was certain the signs were being stolen from the Municipal Stadium scoreboard. Such charges made against a variety of teams led to the commissioner's memorandum that the Astros and apparent Red Sox egregiously violated.

Forget that the 1984 White Sox were were such a bad team. there were some disgruntled White Sox from that era who had bad things to say about the organization when they left. Rudy Law even signed for the rival Royals after he was released at the end of spring training at age 29. While it simply wouldn't have been in Tom Paciorek's nature to dump on the White Sox after he was let go as an announcer, there were opportunities for unhappy players to go all Mike Fiers on LaRussa. Jack McDowell's charges are so remote that aren't even something baseball could investigate -- like a hypothetical allegation that Dick Allen was getting signs relayed to him during the 1972 season with the help of his now deceased manager -- and a feel-good story for the anti-LaRussa crowd.

Maybe we could grab Ron Kittle for comment.
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2020, 06:01 PM
Kilroy Kilroy is offline
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Quote:
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His story, though, is simply a version of the accusations made against the White Sox in the 1970s and even the 1960s, before there was a Gatorade sign. This is a fairly common allegation made against a lot of teams....
I did have the distinct feeling that I had heard this before. Just not specifically related to LaRussa.
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