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  #16  
Old 11-13-2019, 01:25 AM
TheVulture TheVulture is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blurry View Post
Here's a video breakdown of it with absolute proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2XNW1qHN9w

This is indisputable they cheated.
Jomboy is awesome. One of the best channels on YT
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2019, 01:33 AM
TheVulture TheVulture is online now
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Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post

Fiers and the A's have been whiny little b*tches for years.
Is Danny Farquhar a whiny little bitch too? You own Astros stock or what?
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2019, 01:39 AM
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thomas35forever thomas35forever is offline
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Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Jomboy is awesome. One of the best channels on YT
Agreed. I discovered him this season, and his videos have been near-musts for me ever since.

As for the Astros, what exactly can happen here? I'm assuming the maximum fine allowed to be inflicted onto a team and a loss of draft picks would be among the penalties. Maybe some firings or lifetime bans from organized baseball would be in the mix, too. But would they go so far as to strip them of their 2017 title? In that case, would it retroactively be awarded to the Dodgers, or would they simply vacate the championship? I'm more interested in the potential consequences than anything else.

What a shame. I've always considered the Astros my second favorite team after meeting Craig Biggio when I was 10.
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:24 AM
TheVulture TheVulture is online now
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Hinch ought to be banned if you ask me. This is a deliberate offense to the integrity of the game.
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:01 AM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
Hinch ought to be banned if you ask me. This is a deliberate offense to the integrity of the game.
Methinks TheVulture doth protest too much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
It's not like they can just juice the baseballs to make everyone forget.
No teal? Ok, it is exactly like MLB can juice the baseballs and get today's fan ignoring the relevant and focusing on the bright shiny objects (exploding scoreboards, graphics, cool stats/terms) in the distance.

Attendance is down again for 2019.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...019-misc.shtml
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Last edited by Grzegorz; 11-13-2019 at 12:48 PM. Reason: formatting, remove the consumer debt point for now.
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  #21  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:34 AM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grzegorz View Post
...
No teal? Ok, it is exactly like MLB can juice the baseballs and get today's fan ignoring the relevant and focusing on the bright shiny objects (exploding scoreboards, graphics, cool stats/terms) in the distance. ...

I thought the teal was obvious even in black type.
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2019, 07:24 AM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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Let's be honest, you can get away with this kind of stuff against clubs like the 2017 white sox, and nobody is going to care. When you start costing clubs like the Dodgers a WS or deny the Yankees an opportunity to play in the World Series, you're costing MLB and its broadcasters big money

There will be some bigtime repercussions from this, from loss of draft picks to player suspensions to front office personnel being removed imo
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  #23  
Old 11-13-2019, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
Let's be honest, you can get away with this kind of stuff against clubs like the 2017 white sox, and nobody is going to care. When you start costing clubs like the Dodgers a WS or deny the Yankees an opportunity to play in the World Series, you're costing MLB and its broadcasters big money

There will be some bigtime repercussions from this, from loss of draft picks to player suspensions to front office personnel being removed imo

Why did they need to do it against the 2017 White Sox? Did they not think they could win without cheating? To the best of my knowledge, Geoff Blum didn't get any stolen signs for his World Series at bat in the ballpark.

I hope the White Sox avoid this component of the Astros' legendary rebuild.
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  #24  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:31 PM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Why did they need to do it against the 2017 White Sox? Did they not think they could win without cheating? To the best of my knowledge, Geoff Blum didn't get any stolen signs for his World Series at bat in the ballpark.

I hope the White Sox avoid this component of the Astros' legendary rebuild.
They were down 3-1 to the Sox at the time, so...
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  #25  
Old 11-13-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
They were down 3-1 to the Sox at the time, so...

So maybe they only got enough wins to get to the postseason by cheating?

Is there a metric to measure such things?
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  #26  
Old 11-13-2019, 04:03 PM
JohnTucker0814 JohnTucker0814 is offline
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I saw a post about the Team K's starting in 2017, going from one of the worst in baseball to the best. Low K totals would be an indicator that you knew if an offspeed pitch was coming. Knowing that data would greatly increase your chances of making contact. Again, even knowing what is coming, it's still incredibly hard to get a hit in the majors.

But, less likely to K if you know an offspeed pitch is coming IMO. That would be a bigger indicator to me than wins/losses. Houston was still a great team in 2017, so that win/loss stat should be good.
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:09 PM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDog View Post
Why did they need to do it against the 2017 White Sox? Did they not think they could win without cheating? To the best of my knowledge, Geoff Blum didn't get any stolen signs for his World Series at bat in the ballpark.

I hope the White Sox avoid this component of the Astros' legendary rebuild.
Couple this with the accusations of pine tar on baseballs to increase spin rate and I think we can conclude that their advanced analytics and scouting aren't actually good enough to make the playoffs if all of the accusations are legit. If you're that desperate to beat the 2017 white sox, you're not high on talent
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  #28  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:29 PM
JohnTucker0814 JohnTucker0814 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
Couple this with the accusations of pine tar on baseballs to increase spin rate and I think we can conclude that their advanced analytics and scouting aren't actually good enough to make the playoffs if all of the accusations are legit. If you're that desperate to beat the 2017 white sox, you're not high on talent
Also, let's think in reality. NO WAY were they doing this on EVERY pitch at home. If they were doing it on every pitch, they would have been caught a lot easier. They probably only did it in crucial times or when they were down and needed a hit or someone on base. I'd be curious to know how well they did in the 7th, 8th, and 9th at Home the past 3 years.
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  #29  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:35 PM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTucker0814 View Post
Also, let's think in reality. NO WAY were they doing this on EVERY pitch at home. If they were doing it on every pitch, they would have been caught a lot easier. They probably only did it in crucial times or when they were down and needed a hit or someone on base. I'd be curious to know how well they did in the 7th, 8th, and 9th at Home the past 3 years.
I totally agree with this but the margin for making the playoffs and not making the playoffs in baseball is so thin that if they're doing it maybe 20 games a year and end up winning let's say 14-15 of those due to stealing signs via camera, that's the difference between missing the playoffs and having home field advantage

And we're talking big money between missing the playoffs and advancing rounds in the playoffs. Imagine the dollars lost to broadcasters if they were doing it during the playoffs this year against the Yankees
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  #30  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:40 PM
JohnTucker0814 JohnTucker0814 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel View Post
I totally agree with this but the margin for making the playoffs and not making the playoffs in baseball is so thin that if they're doing it maybe 20 games a year and end up winning let's say 14-15 of those due to stealing signs via camera, that's the difference between missing the playoffs and having home field advantage

And we're talking big money between missing the playoffs and advancing rounds in the playoffs. Imagine the dollars lost to broadcasters if they were doing it during the playoffs this year against the Yankees
My comment wasn't in defense of them, was just saying how they were able to cheat without really being caught in the open. Them winning 3-5 games could sway the playoffs quite a bit, especially if they were beating the team in 2nd place because of it!
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