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  #31  
Old 01-05-2020, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TDog View Post
A bigger up-down strike zone, whether it is called by umpires or electronically, would change pitching and hitting enough to render your metrics meaningless. As it is, in this decade two World Series winners were at (or very near, without looking it up), the bottom of their league in home runs, and they were exciting teams to watch.

If you want to speed up the pace of the game, you are going to have to reduce not just the home run totals, but the emphasis on bases on balls (the biggest drag on the pace of the game) and giving up contact hitting in quest of home runs. It isn't about home run totals. It's about the excitement of watching a runner score from first on a line drive in the gap vs. the thrill of watching a bat flip.

Regardless of preference, though, there is no doubt that hitters who take pitches that won't give them their preferred launch angle would have to change their approach with a strike zone that forces them to adjust the plane of their swing.
Curious about the other 80% of WS winners and where they ranked in HR totals relative to the rest of the league?

FYI, nothing in the current approach doesn't value a line drive in the gap. It's got good exit velocity and launch angle. However take the same line drive and increase the launch angle a bit and it leaves the park. Trying to overcome gravity is always the biggest issue.
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  #32  
Old 01-05-2020, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Curious about the other 80% of WS winners and where they ranked in HR totals relative to the rest of the league?

FYI, nothing in the current approach doesn't value a line drive in the gap. It's got good exit velocity and launch angle. However take the same line drive and increase the launch angle a bit and it leaves the park. Trying to overcome gravity is always the biggest issue.
The 2012 Giants were last in the NL in home runs. The 2010 Giants just above the league average and 2014 Giants just below the league average. The 2015 Royals had three more home runs than the White Sox, who were last in the American League. The 2014 Royals got to the World Series, lost Game 7 by one run to the Giants, after hitting less than 100 home runs during the regular season. The only team to hit less than 100 home runs in the American League in the decade. The 2016 Indians, which lost Game 7 in extra innings, were below the regular season average in home runs. At least 40 percent of the World Series winners were at the bottom or just about average in regular season home runs.

It isn't the home runs that winning teams have had in common this decade. There are more common threads in pitching. Scoring runs more runs than you give up is obviously the point, but you don't need to hit home runs to score runs, and the better offenses don't need to hit home runs to score runs.

But, obviously, a pitch's location in the strike zone is going to affect the launch angle. There are hitters who tomahawk home runs on high pitches rather than driving the pitch 250 feet between the outfielders or inside the lines. Changing the hitting plane would change the way hitters hit, what they swing at, what they take and what happens to the ball when they put it in play.
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  #33  
Old 01-05-2020, 09:50 PM
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The hitting plane doesnít change if hitters donít swing at those pitches. If Iím a guy who canít do anything with that high fastball, then why am I even bothering to swing at it? Iím taking it and hoping it misses. Iím determined to make him throw that perfect high strike 3 times. If he does, then heís just the better athlete in that confrontation.
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  #34  
Old 01-05-2020, 10:55 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
Curious about the other 80% of WS winners and where they ranked in HR totals relative to the rest of the league?

FYI, nothing in the current approach doesn't value a line drive in the gap. It's got good exit velocity and launch angle. However take the same line drive and increase the launch angle a bit and it leaves the park. Trying to overcome gravity is always the biggest issue.
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  #35  
Old 01-06-2020, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
The hitting plane doesnít change if hitters donít swing at those pitches. If Iím a guy who canít do anything with that high fastball, then why am I even bothering to swing at it? Iím taking it and hoping it misses. Iím determined to make him throw that perfect high strike 3 times. If he does, then heís just the better athlete in that confrontation.
In that scenario, the pitcher does not have to throw a perfect high strike 3 times.
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  #36  
Old 01-06-2020, 11:46 AM
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In that scenario, the pitcher does not have to throw a perfect high strike 3 times.
Sure, he can always use a slider or a curve. As for fastballs, iím not swinging at something I canít handle.
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  #37  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:21 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Sure, he can always use a slider or a curve. As for fastballs, i’m not swinging at something I can’t handle.
Umm you realize that pitch recognition is more than half the battle of hitting? You end up committing to swinging at pitches that you wouldn't have wanted to if you knew what the pitch was ahead of time. Just saying you wouldn't swing at a high FB is unrealistic. All bets are off when you have 2 strikes.

Also, not all high FBs are created equal.
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  #38  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:30 PM
asindc asindc is offline
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Sure, he can always use a slider or a curve. As for fastballs, iím not swinging at something I canít handle.
Well, pitchers and pitching coaches will be happy to notice that. Makes it easy to scout you.
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  #39  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Umm you realize that pitch recognition is more than half the battle of hitting? You end up committing to swinging at pitches that you wouldn't have wanted to if you knew what the pitch was ahead of time. Just saying you wouldn't swing at a high FB is unrealistic. All bets are off when you have 2 strikes.

[b]Also, not all high FBs are created equal.[/i]
Thatís the entire point.

A Justin Verlander high fastball? Forget about it. A Lucas Giolito high fastball? Forget about it.

A Reynaldo Lopez high fastball? Thatís a different story.
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  #40  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Well, pitchers and pitching coaches will be happy to notice that. Makes it easy to scout you.
You swing just enough to keep them honest, and you pick your battles.
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  #41  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
You swing just enough to keep them honest, and you pick your battles.
Well, that’s not the same as not swinging at all. That is the point that many of us here are making. When the pitcher can consistently locate that high fastball in the zone, the electronic strike zone will call it a strike in cases where a human ump might not have. So the strategy of laying off that pitch becomes much more precarious. Hence, having an electronic strike zone will force some players to be more contact conscious and less accepting of taking strikes hoping they don’t get called or that they miss the zone.
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  #42  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:49 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Thatís the entire point.

A Justin Verlander high fastball? Forget about it. A Lucas Giolito high fastball? Forget about it.

A Reynaldo Lopez high fastball? Thatís a different story.
Not really, you said that you wouldn't swing at high FBs period. Now only from the best pitchers in the league?

Hypothetically if you are such a bad high ball hitter, then you are not going to have a shot at Lopez's 98 MPH high heat (don't care about his spin rate, not going to make you any better at getting around on it.)

Not having the confidence to even foul off high FBs would be evident to every player, coach, teammate, etc in the league. Would get you a seat on the bench or sent to the minors.

Pitchers would be living up there or dropping called strikes in on breaking pitches all day. You can't really say you'd be ready for those, because you already said you are out on all high FBs, which are what called breaking ball strikes look like at first coming in.
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  #43  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:49 PM
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voodoochile voodoochile is offline
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Originally Posted by asindc View Post
Well, thatís not the same as not swinging at all. That is the point that many of us here are making. When the pitcher can consistently locate that high fastball in the zone, the electronic strike zone will call it a strike in cases where a human ump might not have. So the strategy of laying off that pitch becomes much more precarious. Hence, having an electronic strike zone will force some players to be more contact conscious and less accepting of taking strikes hoping they donít get called or that they miss the zone.
The issue is consistency. When you are working the edges, be they up, down, in or out you are relying on your ability to consistently hit that spot. The electronic ump won't be forgiving when you miss up and if you miss down, it's a meatball.
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  #44  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
The issue is consistency. When you are working the edges, be they up, down, in or out you are relying on your ability to consistently hit that spot. The electronic ump won't be forgiving when you miss up and if you miss down, it's a meatball.
Nor will it be forgiving to the batter when hitting the upper edge of the zone. I think hitters will just be less likely to take that pitch, especially in crucial situations.
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  #45  
Old 01-06-2020, 12:55 PM
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Nor will it be forgiving to the batter when hitting the upper edge of the zone. I think hitters will just be less likely to take that pitch, especially in crucial situations.
Obviously you have to guard the edges with 2 strikes on you, but players may well be willing to lay off the first two looking for a mistake on 3 just they way they do with guys painting the black on outer edge sliders now.
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