White Sox Interactive Forums
Sox Clubhouse
 Soxogram: 
GO SOX! DSNB!

Welcome
Go Back   White Sox Interactive Forums > Baseball Discussions > Sox Clubhouse
Home Chat Stats Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:13 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
Chief Skeptic and 2015 Preseason Predictions Contest Winner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
This was a great signing! Only a one year deal with an option; just what the Dr. ordered. Hopefully their still looking to add another outfielder and some bullpen depth. As for those who donít like the move your all entitled to your opinion but it seems always to be the same few posters who hate every move the Sox make. For crying out loud they strengthened their team with only trading one prospect so far; what more could you ask for?
Before the offseason, I said they needed two starters, ideally a #1 and a #3; two high-leverage relievers; a right fielder and a DH.

So far they have acquired a #3 and a #5, no relievers, a below-average right fielder and a 38-year old DH. I assumed they would keep Abreu, which they did. They also acquired an excellent catcher, which was a pleasant surprise, but theyíve done a half-assed job addressing their bigger needs.

Feels like 2015 again.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:16 PM
WSox597 WSox597 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern Illinois, Will County
Posts: 2,327
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Good signing.
Agreed, they needed help at DH, and they got it.

He'll be far better than the two Adams the Sox trotted out there in years past.

And he's certainly better than last years DH hydra of lousy hitters.

They're not hiring him for his fielding abilities, although he can play 1B if needed.

The man can still hit, 34 HR last year between two teams.

I like the signing.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:16 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
Chief Skeptic and 2015 Preseason Predictions Contest Winner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
Really? You ask MLB pitchers who they would rather face McCann or EE. As for Collins you wouldnít even have to ask! There is absolutely no comparison and again itís a one year contract!
Donít like compromising Collinsí opportunity because of a delusion that this team is ready to contend. If Collins can do in the majors what he did in Charlotte, heís more valuable over the next six years than EE.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:23 PM
RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lake Arrowhead, California
Posts: 2,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Donít like compromising Collinsí opportunity because of a delusion that this team is ready to contend. If Collins can do in the majors what he did in Charlotte, heís more valuable over the next six years than EE.
I definitely disagree as many feel their ready to compete now! As for Collins he needs more time in the minors and there is a huge difference between The minor leagues and the Majors. Collins was horrible and overmatched last year.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:23 PM
anewman35 anewman35 is offline
WSI Church Elder
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Buffalo Grove, IL
Posts: 3,400
Default

Obviously, 'professonals' (writers, etc) don't know everything, they can be wrong, etc. But it's interesting how many people here are upset (over and over) when the Sox are signing people that the general consensus has are pretty good. I'm not exactly sure what the Sox were SUPPOSED to do for some of these people, because basically every part they add has some people complaining that the player isn't actually good at all and they would have been better off without him.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:23 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 13,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
He'll hit for power if you throw him a slow meaty fastball. Anyone with a decent rotation will shut him down completely. Oh and in the postseason in 2019 and 2018 he had 0 homers, 2 RBIs and 17 Ks in 41 ABs.

When the Yankees got him every Yankee-slurping media member went crazy. The guys who actually knew what he's capable of said he'd be a strikeout machine and an easy or unproductive out 90% of the time.

But hey, the Sox signed him, so it's another good pickup right? Sure he'll pop some homers occasionally. Can't wait for all the rallies he's going to end if he's going to be a regular in the lineup. This is someone Seattle of all people who could have used anyone, let go for basically nothing.

But you're right, they need/needed pitching. This is another "it's a warm body" signing that will end up hindering more than helping.
This pretty much sums up the attitude of some Sox fans to a tee. Some of us can't wait for all the players we acquired and prospects we're bringing up to flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Iíll be the negative voice here. I donít like the signing. Aging DHs are this franchiseís Achilles heel.
I get your concern. He could be another Dunn/LaRoche/Alonso pick up especially given his age. Plus, being basically a DH and maybe 1B only doesn't give us a lot of flexibility. But, with a 1-year deal and no draft pick lost, this is a low-risk move. He doesn't hamstring the 2020 payroll, either. If he mashes for us, great. If not, we can move on for 2021 with Andrew Vaughn perhaps ready to move up to the majors as our 1B.

I'm happy with this move. If this were the only move the Sox made this winter, then I'd be unhappy. But a lineup of Robert, Eloy, Moncada, TA, Abreu, Grandal, EE, Maraza, and Madrigal (I'm not putting them in order) with McCann and Collins off the bench could very well be a lot of fun to watch.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:27 PM
Hitmen77 Hitmen77 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 13,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anewman35 View Post
Obviously, 'professonals' (writers, etc) don't know everything, they can be wrong, etc. But it's interesting how many people here are upset (over and over) when the Sox are signing people that the general consensus has are pretty good. I'm not exactly sure what the Sox were SUPPOSED to do for some of these people, because basically every part they add has some people complaining that the player isn't actually good at all and they would have been better off without him.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:32 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Lakeview
Posts: 23,366
Default

Good signing and an appropriate contract length. Lineup should be good enough this year. Go fetch relief. Maybe another swingman. Could have an interesting 2020. 2021 looks really good.
__________________
Ridiculousness across all sports:

(1) "You have no valid opinion because you never played the game."
(2) "Stats are irrelevant. This guy just doesn't know how to win."
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:34 PM
TheVulture TheVulture is offline
WSI High Priest
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,060
Default

As it stands, the Sox have acquired a number two and number three starter, if we are being realistic.
__________________
Fire Rinky Hahliams!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:35 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
WSI Prelate
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Palos Hills, IL
Posts: 13,174
Default

This signing helps the lineup keep ticking, even if there is an injury. This is the kind of depth we need to accumulate on the pitching side as well.

The 1-year rental equivalents on the pitching market are J.A. Happ, Jeff Samardzija, Jake Arrieta, and Chris Archer. Chris Archer is likely the only pitcher on that list who would cost anything of value in terms of prospects, and it would not be that high of a cost.

I would not mind seeing if the Phillies would give up, say, Francisco Morales or Mickey Moniak if we took Arrietaís $20 off their hands.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemaster Fred
This is the major leagues so get it how you live and letís fight tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:45 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
Chief Skeptic and 2015 Preseason Predictions Contest Winner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitmen77 View Post
This pretty much sums up the attitude of some Sox fans to a tee. Some of us can't wait for all the players we acquired and prospects we're bringing up to flop.



I get your concern. He could be another Dunn/LaRoche/Alonso pick up especially given his age. Plus, being basically a DH and maybe 1B only doesn't give us a lot of flexibility. But, with a 1-year deal and no draft pick lost, this is a low-risk move. He doesn't hamstring the 2020 payroll, either. If he mashes for us, great. If not, we can move on for 2021 with Andrew Vaughn perhaps ready to move up to the majors as our 1B.

I'm happy with this move. If this were the only move the Sox made this winter, then I'd be unhappy. But a lineup of Robert, Eloy, Moncada, TA, Abreu, Grandal, EE, Maraza, and Madrigal (I'm not putting them in order) with McCann and Collins off the bench could very well be a lot of fun to watch.
Yes. I don’t *hate* the move (it’s low risk) but I am worried the front office is again prioritizing “proven veterans” with obvious flaws over younger players with more upside.

It us not yet time for “win now” moves. They won 72 games and are counting on two rookie regulars and multiple rookie pitchers.

They have a bad manager, and they don’t even realize it.

They will be bad defensively. Jimenez is embarrassingly bad, and Mazara, Abreu and Anderson are weak. Why not acquire a good two-way player at one of those positions and make the displaced player the DH?

They don’t have the pitching they need. Kopech, Cease, and Lopez have amounted to nothing yet. The next wave of starters is a year from possibly contributing. Keuchel is a #3 being asked to pitch like a #2 and Gonzalez is just a #5. The bullpen did it with smoke and mirrors last year and has not been improved.

In a vacuum, this is a “meh” signing. Taken together with Mazara, they’re just settling for stopgaps instead of building a champion.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-25-2019, 10:48 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
Chief Skeptic and 2015 Preseason Predictions Contest Winner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVulture View Post
As it stands, the Sox have acquired a number two and number three starter, if we are being realistic.
Being realistic means accepting that Kopech might need a year to get back to where he was when he came up, and another year or two to master major league hitters.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:01 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
Winner 2019 PTC Contest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 18,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyroger2 View Post
He'll hit for power if you throw him a slow meaty fastball. Anyone with a decent rotation will shut him down completely. Oh and in the postseason in 2019 and 2018 he had 0 homers, 2 RBIs and 17 Ks in 41 ABs.

When the Yankees got him every Yankee-slurping media member went crazy. The guys who actually knew what he's capable of said he'd be a strikeout machine and an easy or unproductive out 90% of the time.

But hey, the Sox signed him, so it's another good pickup right? Sure he'll pop some homers occasionally. Can't wait for all the rallies he's going to end if he's going to be a regular in the lineup. This is someone Seattle of all people who could have used anyone, let go for basically nothing.

But you're right, they need/needed pitching. This is another "it's a warm body" signing that will end up hindering more than helping.

Do you realize that, in the modern game, ability to make contact and strike outs are utterly irrelevant?

Do you realize that, in a 162 game season, EE was on pace to hit 50 home runs and 130 plus rbi?

Do you realize that he was on pace to have 4 plus WAR as a dh?

Do you know that our DH's, last year, combined for a total of-3.5 WAR.

Even if he only has a 2 WAR season (likely), the Sox will net 5.5 WAR our of this signing.

This is the perfect signing and works as a bridge for Vaughn. It is a win now move and isn't a risky move, at all.

There is literally no better move the Sox could have made here.
__________________
http://arsenalist.com/video/?id=xh2dx6

Greatest Arsenal goal I have ever witnessed. Chills to this day watching it.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:04 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
Chief Skeptic and 2015 Preseason Predictions Contest Winner
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
As for Collins he needs more time in the minors and there is a huge difference between The minor leagues and the Majors. Collins was horrible and overmatched last year.
31 plate appearances in June/July, and sucked.

Sent down, made a swing adjustment, came back up.

71 plate appearances in September/October, .760 OPS.

He had a .951 OPS in Charlotte and has nothing more to prove there as a hitter. He certainly needs to work on his catching, which he needs to do with Grandal and McCann and the Sox rotation.

Last edited by A. Cavatica; 12-25-2019 at 11:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:09 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
Winner 2019 PTC Contest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 18,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Wouldnít like it. Signing a 37-year-old free agent DH is stupid.
Nelson Cruz and the twins would love to have a conversation with you.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Forum Jump




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 PM.




Design by: Michelle

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Site-specific editorial/photos Copyright ©2001 - 2008 White Sox Interactive. All rights reserved.