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  #61  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:38 PM
34rancher 34rancher is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
Do you realize that, in the modern game, ability to make contact and strike outs are utterly irrelevant?

Do you realize that, in a 162 game season, EE was on pace to hit 50 home runs and 130 plus rbi?

Do you realize that he was on pace to have 4 plus WAR as a dh?

Do you know that our DH's, last year, combined for a total of-3.5 WAR.

Even if he only has a 2 WAR season (likely), the Sox will net 5.5 WAR our of this signing.

This is the perfect signing and works as a bridge for Vaughn. It is a win now move and isn't a risky move, at all.

There is literally no better move the Sox could have made here.
I agree with everything you said. What I am concerned about is the ball for 2020. With the focus on what was different and size of seams, etc. I wonder if the game will change back because of the scrutiny and focus on it. This would change all the metrics back to pre 2018 baseball. 2018 and 2019 were the only 2 seasons in MLB history where strikeouts outnumbered hits. It's curious to think about.

That being said, the Sox have not had a decent or reliable DH in the last decade. Even if EE has a career worst season, he is vastly an upgrade over the last season for the Sox. I don't care about the cash, as we have stockpiled a warchest the last 4 years. I say win now....
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  #62  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:39 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
Yes.




What if I told you we might still sign a Puig/Castellanos/Ozuna to play in RF?
Give me Castellanos and Shogo Akiyama instead of EE and Mazara. But thatís water under the bridge.

Or sign Ozuna to play left and move Eloy to DH.

Puig = cancer
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  #63  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:43 PM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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Originally Posted by 34rancher View Post
I agree with everything you said. What I am concerned about is the ball for 2020. With the focus on what was different and size of seams, etc. I wonder if the game will change back because of the scrutiny and focus on it. This would change all the metrics back to pre 2018 baseball. 2018 and 2019 were the only 2 seasons in MLB history where strikeouts outnumbered hits. It's curious to think about.

That being said, the Sox have not had a decent or reliable DH in the last decade. Even if EE has a career worst season, he is vastly an upgrade over the last season for the Sox. I don't care about the cash, as we have stockpiled a warchest the last 4 years. I say win now....
I'd worry about this but EE's strength is still from his ability to make hard contact.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...-r-hitting-mlb

Edwin was 70th percentile in hard hit rate and exit velocity last season. He was 73rd and 71st percentile the year before that.

There's a slight decline in pop but he is still making enough solid contact where the production will happen irrespective of the ball itself.

But, like you said, even if he is sporting a .250/.325/.540 slash line with 34hr/105 rbi, that is still a MASSIVE improvement over our previous production and an extremely solid bat to have hitting sixth in the line-up. SIXTH.
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  #64  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:45 PM
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Nice birthday present for Ricky.
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  #65  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by guillensdisciple View Post
Yes.




What if I told you we might still sign a Puig/Castellanos/Ozuna to play in RF?
I'd be shocked if they did that. No reason to trade for Mazara if they go and sign someone else. There were three offensive positions needed filling, RF, DH and C to start the off season. At present all three have been filled.
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  #66  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Give me Castellanos and Shogo Akiyama instead of EE and Mazara. But thatís water under the bridge.

Or sign Ozuna to play left and move Eloy to DH.

Puig = cancer
They just spent 12M on a DH. If you sign someone to play LF and move Eloy to DH there is a bunch of wasted money somewhere.
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  #67  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:52 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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He'll hit for power if you throw him a slow meaty fastball. Anyone with a decent rotation will shut him down completely. Oh and in the postseason in 2019 and 2018 he had 0 homers, 2 RBIs and 17 Ks in 41 ABs.

When the Yankees got him every Yankee-slurping media member went crazy. The guys who actually knew what he's capable of said he'd be a strikeout machine and an easy or unproductive out 90% of the time.

But hey, the Sox signed him, so it's another good pickup right? Sure he'll pop some homers occasionally. Can't wait for all the rallies he's going to end if he's going to be a regular in the lineup. This is someone Seattle of all people who could have used anyone, let go for basically nothing.

But you're right, they need/needed pitching. This is another "it's a warm body" signing that will end up hindering more than helping.
A few stats from 2019- from baseball reference

1.021 OPS w/RISP and 2 outs
1.113 OPS Late & Close

Doesn't seem like a "rally killer" to me.
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  #68  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:54 PM
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We just got a DH on a one year deal that doesn’t make or break us, but getting rid of any prospect because we signed him is not prudent.

Trading Collins, like trading anyone, is fine as long as it is for another good, young cost-controlled piece. I am admittedly higher on him than seemingly everyone but a few. I don’t want to use him in a package for a vet AND have to pay said vet big bucks immediately. I saw him catch a lot down here the past few camps and contrary to what some people like to repeat, his D has improved greatly. He’s not the scrub back there that people like to say he is and I still think he is very much a catcher long term. That’s where he belongs and he has enough tools to get there. Technique has improved a lot since the first time I saw him in person in ‘17 and I am a believer in letting talent learn behind talent.

I also think he is going to righties rather well immediately and that’s a valuable trait to have in any position. Let alone a C who will face that roughly 70% of the time. Contrary to what people will say, we do in fact have a spot to keep him where he can learn and still get a bunch of ABs Vs RHP and catch, and DH and play 1B. Whether the people who know more about his value and first hand experience with him agree, I don’t know, but I hold his value as a C highly in this rebuilds immediate and future plans.

Basically what Cavatica said. Home grown talent is paramount, right now and that can’t be lost in the scope of landing guys who make us so much better in paper than we were in September.

McCannon’s probably not feeling this, but we shall see.
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  #69  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:55 PM
TomBradley72 TomBradley72 is offline
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I don't hate the signing but I'd rather have seen them fortify the bullpen first. Gotta get 27 outs each game, and need to do it in the least number off batters possible.
What does one have to do with the other?- these are Free Agents- the White Sox can't necessarily dictate the timetable.

Signing a veteran DH for a single season of $12M does not interfere with the bullpen in any way.
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  #70  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:57 PM
RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Home-grown stars are the only way to build a sustainable winner. Collins could become one.

Sox could have built a WS favorite simply by signing a few free agents...say Cole, Strasburg, Wheeler, Rendon. Why didnít they?
Believe me if the Sox would have signed any of these players there still would have been posters who would have complained about the length of the contract or the dollar amount or player position (Rendon). Hell after reading some of these posts I feel if the Sox traded any one of their canít miss prospects for Mike Trout straight up some would complain that Trout makes too much and his contract is too long!
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  #71  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:58 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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I do think EE is a good answer to the question ďhow do we upgrade our DH production for one year without blocking Vaughn?Ē

I donít think they asked themselves ďhow do we improve defensively at four positions for the next several seasons?Ē

Just rotating the bad defenders through DH would have upgraded the DH production from last year.
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  #72  
Old 12-25-2019, 11:59 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is online now
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Originally Posted by RCWHITESOX View Post
Believe me if the Sox would have signed any of these players there still would have been posters who would have complained about the length of the contract or the dollar amount or player position (Rendon). Hell after reading some of these posts I feel if the Sox traded any one of their canít miss prospects for Mike Trout straight up some would complain that Trout makes too much and his contract is too long!
I don't think anyone would do that.
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  #73  
Old 12-26-2019, 12:00 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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I also think this move is a fairly big indicator Collins will be traded for bullpen help since the bullpen help on the free agent market isn't that great.
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  #74  
Old 12-26-2019, 12:03 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is online now
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I also think this move is a fairly big indicator Collins will be traded for bullpen help since the bullpen help on the free agent market isn't that great.
As long as that BP help comes with a good young player, preferably a good SP prospect.
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  #75  
Old 12-26-2019, 12:05 AM
guillensdisciple guillensdisciple is offline
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As long as that BP help comes with a good young player, preferably a good SP prospect.
Collins isn't remotely good enough to net that kind of return. I will be happy with. a decent bullpen return.
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