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  #1  
Old 09-26-2019, 11:49 AM
Irishsox1 Irishsox1 is offline
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Default 7th straight under .500 season

Longest stretch of under .500 baseball for the Sox since 1944 to 1950. In 1951 Sox went 81-73-1. Longest consecutive under .500 baseball is 9 seasons, 1927 to 1935. In 1936 Sox went 81-70.

If the Sox can win 1 more game they will end the 2 year streak of under 70 wins which would be a good thing.

The reason I mention this is there have been crazy turnaround seasons in baseball but for next year, statistically speaking, the Sox are due to be better. But right now I don't see the starting pitching making that big of a jump in one year. Not saying they can't but Dylan Covey, Ross Detwiler, Dylan Cease, Reynaldo Lopez, Manny Banuelous & Ivan Nova have combined for 110 starts and have a collective era of 6.32. That's a pretty high number out of the starters. Lucas Giolito is the only one who had a good year. And I get that a ton of homeruns are being hit this year but the Twins have 1 starter with an ERA over 5.00.

If the Sox are going to get to 80 wins next year, they have to fix the pitching.
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2019, 11:59 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Yes but for the last 4 of those seasons, the Sox were not trying to win. The success of the Sox season should be evaluated by whether or not they achieved their goals, and for 2016 - 2019 the goal was to rebuild the team, not to win. Judging the 2016 - 2019 Sox by whether or not they won games in the majors is like judging the proverbial fish by how well he rides a bicycle.

Of course guys like Nova, Detweiller, Santiago, etc. were bad in 2019. They were not signed for the purpose of winning games. They were signed as organizational filler. Their bad play in fact helped the Sox, because if you are not a contender the next best thing is to lose a lot of games and get a decent draft pick.

People on WSI need to learn how to be a fan of a rebuilding team. Caring about W-L record is not how you do it.
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:09 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Yes but for the last 4 of those seasons, the Sox were not trying to win. The success of the Sox season should be evaluated by whether or not they achieved their goals, and for 2016 - 2019 the goal was to rebuild the team, not to win. Judging the 2016 - 2019 Sox by whether or not they won games in the majors is like judging the proverbial fish by how well he rides a bicycle.

Of course guys like Nova, Detweiller, Santiago, etc. were bad in 2019. They were not signed for the purpose of winning games. They were signed as organizational filler. Their bad play in fact helped the Sox, because if you are not a contender the next best thing is to lose a lot of games and get a decent draft pick.

People on WSI need to learn how to be a fan of a rebuilding team. Caring about W-L record is not how you do it.

Not caring about wins and loses could run this streak into double digits. Regardless of the excitement over a few hitters, this team will need to find substantially more starting pitching and build a substantially better bullpen to win more frequently than they lose.
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:46 PM
A. Cavatica A. Cavatica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Yes but for the last 4 of those seasons, the Sox were not trying to win. The success of the Sox season should be evaluated by whether or not they achieved their goals, and for 2016 - 2019 the goal was to rebuild the team, not to win. Judging the 2016 - 2019 Sox by whether or not they won games in the majors is like judging the proverbial fish by how well he rides a bicycle.
What's sad is that the Sox were actually trying to win in 2015 and 2016, despite having very little talent beyond their core of 4-5, and Ventura as manager. They saw the Shields trade (in 2016) as a win-now move.

Only 2017-2019 were official tank seasons. (And the Ventura years through 2014.)

Even if there are no major pitching upgrades, they will go into 2020 with better talent than 2016. However, if they keep Renteria as manager, then they didn't learn an important lesson from 2016.
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2019, 04:54 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
What's sad is that the Sox were actually trying to win in 2015 and 2016, despite having very little talent beyond their core of 4-5, and Ventura as manager. They saw the Shields trade (in 2016) as a win-now move.

Only 2017-2019 were official tank seasons. (And the Ventura years through 2014.)

Even if there are no major pitching upgrades, they will go into 2020 with better talent than 2016. However, if they keep Renteria as manager, then they didn't learn an important lesson from 2016.
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:51 PM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irishsox1 View Post
Longest stretch of under .500 baseball for the Sox since 1944 to 1950. In 1951 Sox went 81-73-1. Longest consecutive under .500 baseball is 9 seasons, 1927 to 1935. In 1936 Sox went 81-70.

If the Sox can win 1 more game they will end the 2 year streak of under 70 wins which would be a good thing.

The reason I mention this is there have been crazy turnaround seasons in baseball but for next year, statistically speaking, the Sox are due to be better. But right now I don't see the starting pitching making that big of a jump in one year. Not saying they can't but Dylan Covey, Ross Detwiler, Dylan Cease, Reynaldo Lopez, Manny Banuelous & Ivan Nova have combined for 110 starts and have a collective era of 6.32. That's a pretty high number out of the starters. Lucas Giolito is the only one who had a good year. And I get that a ton of homeruns are being hit this year but the Twins have 1 starter with an ERA over 5.00.

If the Sox are going to get to 80 wins next year, they have to fix the pitching.
You lost me when you lumped in Dylan Cease with those other stiffs.

I find it incredible that some fans can't distinguish (or perhaps refuse to distinguish is more like it) the difference between Dylan Cease and a bunch of no-talent/washed up guys who have proven they're not qualified to be major league starters. It's like people are just handed stat sheets of players for the last 3 months with absolutely no context whatsoever.

I'd actually put Lopez somewhere in between. Not someone to give up on like Covey, but someone with talent who at this point can't be relied upon as a future starter.

Everyone repeat after me: Cease and Kopech, barring injury, WILL be in our starting rotation next year even if they aren't very good right off the bat. That's what good teams do - give highly talented players time to adjust to MLB competition even if they take some lumps along the way, not treat them as roster filler after only a few months. Apparently this concept is beyond acknowledgement to some fans.
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  #7  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:59 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by GoSox2K3 View Post
You lost me when you lumped in Dylan Cease with those other stiffs.

I find it incredible that some fans can't distinguish (or perhaps refuse to distinguish is more like it) the difference between Dylan Cease and a bunch of no-talent/washed up guys who have proven they're not qualified to be major league starters. It's like people are just handed stat sheets of players for the last 3 months with absolutely no context whatsoever.

I'd actually put Lopez somewhere in between.
Not someone to give up on like Covey, but someone with talent who at this point can't be relied upon as a future starter.

Lopez was a red flag for almost every analyst coming into this season as he magicially outperformed his FIP and other advanced stats by margins over 1 run. What happened to Lopez is that he stopped being extremely lucky, and the results matched the way he's pitched his entire career.

I'd really rather not count Lopez as anything other than inning fodder at the bottom of the rotation until we address the position in trade or free agency.
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  #8  
Old 09-26-2019, 04:24 PM
Camilo, carry-on Camilo, carry-on is offline
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Reynaldo Lopez probably has one more start this season. If Lopez has another bad start, he will virtually assure himself of being the pitcher with the most earned runs scored against him this year in MLB. It's unlikely that Rey Lopez will ever lead MLB in any pitching category for a season again. I don't think Lopez will be allowed to pitch 180 innings in a season ever again.
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  #9  
Old 09-26-2019, 04:59 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camilo, carry-on View Post
Reynaldo Lopez probably has one more start this season. If Lopez has another bad start, he will virtually assure himself of being the pitcher with the most earned runs scored against him this year in MLB. It's unlikely that Rey Lopez will ever lead MLB in any pitching category for a season again. I don't think Lopez will be allowed to pitch 180 innings in a season ever again.
Lucas Giolito led the AL in walks and the majors in ER allowed in 2018.

I didn't think Giolito would be allowed to pitch 170 innings in a season ever again!

By all means, continue the angry hot takes. I'll ignore them from here on out.
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  #10  
Old 09-26-2019, 05:16 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittle42 View Post
Lucas Giolito led the AL in walks and the majors in ER allowed in 2018.

I didn't think Giolito would be allowed to pitch 170 innings in a season ever again!

By all means, continue the angry hot takes. I'll ignore them from here on out.

There really isn't a precedent for someone like Giolito going from where he was to where he is now. Having two guys go from full seasons as one of the worst pitching years in a decade to one of the best in the game would be very unlikely.

The difference between Giolito and Lopez is that Lopez has been pitching the same this year as he always had, and the results normalized. He still has a ton of talent, but he's going to need to prove he can do this to retain his rotation spot.
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  #11  
Old 09-26-2019, 04:41 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishsox1 View Post
Longest stretch of under .500 baseball for the Sox since 1944 to 1950. In 1951 Sox went 81-73-1. Longest consecutive under .500 baseball is 9 seasons, 1927 to 1935. In 1936 Sox went 81-70.

If the Sox can win 1 more game they will end the 2 year streak of under 70 wins which would be a good thing.

The reason I mention this is there have been crazy turnaround seasons in baseball but for next year, statistically speaking, the Sox are due to be better. But right now I don't see the starting pitching making that big of a jump in one year. Not saying they can't but Dylan Covey, Ross Detwiler, Dylan Cease, Reynaldo Lopez, Manny Banuelous & Ivan Nova have combined for 110 starts and have a collective era of 6.32. That's a pretty high number out of the starters. Lucas Giolito is the only one who had a good year. And I get that a ton of homeruns are being hit this year but the Twins have 1 starter with an ERA over 5.00.

If the Sox are going to get to 80 wins next year, they have to fix the pitching.
I fail to see how finishing with 89 losses instead of 90 or 91 losses is some kind of benchmark.
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