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  #16  
Old 09-29-2019, 10:35 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
You're not.

90% of the consistently negative posts come from a core of about 8 or 9 people.
The real question is whether or not the team will do whatever it takes to complement this core.
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  #17  
Old 09-29-2019, 11:13 PM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
You're not.

90% of the consistently negative posts come from a core of about 8 or 9 people.
Thatís right. Funny how that perception happens on message boards.
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  #18  
Old 09-29-2019, 11:20 PM
KenBerryGrab KenBerryGrab is offline
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10 games better. Identified building blocks found a catcher. More kids coming. Arrow pointed up.
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  #19  
Old 09-29-2019, 11:27 PM
TDog TDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
The real question is whether or not the team will do whatever it takes to complement this core.

Do you mean the core of players/prospects that would have made signing Machado last season at best a redundant drain on resources and more likely a contractual black hole, or do you mean the core referred to in the post you were responding to? If the front office makes an effort to complement the core of negative posters (it used to be that negative posters were referred to here as realists), that wouldn't be a good thing.

I don't see how anyone can be energized with the pitching this year other than the breakthrough season for Giolito. The pitching staff, from the No. 2 starter almost through the bullpen carries the burden a series of question marks.
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2019, 12:01 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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It was meant to be a joke about the Sox blundering their way through the offseason and making the core of negative posters swell. It seemed funnier in my own head when I was typing.
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  #21  
Old 09-30-2019, 01:52 AM
slavko slavko is offline
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Originally Posted by KenBerryGrab View Post
10 games better. Identified building blocks found a catcher. More kids coming. Arrow pointed up.
How much of that's due solely to Colome not blowing a bunch of leads?
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2019, 02:00 AM
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I guess I'm one of the 8 or 9 who still isn't sold that this team is ready to contend. There are more problems than just a couple of pitchers.


Team defense: Sox were 14th out of 15 in team fielding %, 10th in defensive efficiency. Getting a different third baseman and moving Moncada back to 2nd would exacerbate this. He was a below-average second baseman; he's been outstanding at third. Plus, it is not unheard of for a player's offense to struggle when he's not comfortable on defense.


Team offense: 13th out of 15 in runs per game. 12th out of 15 in OPS.


Pitching was really more middle-of-the-road. 9th in team ERA.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2019, 07:17 AM
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Only one pitching spot?

Giolito could regress. Kopech, Cease, and Lopez might take a year or more to get it together. They only have half a bullpen. Anyone could get hurt, and some will.

Ideally they would find a #1 starter, a #3 starter, and two high-leverage relievers. The #1 starter is Giolito insurance. The #3 pushes Kopech, Cease, and Lopez down in the pecking order to give them easier matchups and the option of moving the weakest to the bullpen. The high-leverage relievers are so we never have to see the likes of Ruiz again.
Doesn't this whole idea of slotting a pitcher as a #3 or #2 to get better matchups evaporate after the first week or two of the season -- rainouts, off-days, injuries, "openers" etc. ? Yes, the Sox need another quality starter or two. But the notion that our #2 is going to face the opponent's #2 each time through the rotation isn't accurate.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2019, 07:46 AM
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I feel really good about this team and its ability to contend in 2020 if JR/Hahn do the right things.

Comparing record to 2018 makes 2019 seem unimpressive, but the difference is the Sox in 2019 were driven by their core rebuild pieces playing well, whereas the 2018 team won a bunch of games because the filler scrubs had good games.

Biggest regret of the season is not trading Colome at the deadline.
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  #25  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:03 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by SoxandtheCityTee View Post
For me this season was just dramatically better than the misery of the past few years. I may be in the minority here by looking at the bright spots. But I'm happy to do so. Looking forward to next year.
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Originally Posted by DumpJerry View Post
You're not.

90% of the consistently negative posts come from a core of about 8 or 9 people.

Bingo.


It's actually a minority that is rather negative about this team's future. It's just they post the same things over and over again about how our good players might regress next year. And how DARE any Sox fan get excited about next year since no one on this team has yet to prove anything over a long stretch of seasons! Don't you know that Cease and Kopech are NOBODIES and will remain so until they have 3 good seasons under their belt? Until then, they may as well be our next Covey and Detweiler. Heck, I might slip coming out of the bathtub sometime during the offseason and crack my head open. Now that I think of it, I'm not optimistic about 2020 at all!

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  #26  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:28 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
I guess I'm one of the 8 or 9 who still isn't sold that this team is ready to contend. There are more problems than just a couple of pitchers.


Team defense: Sox were 14th out of 15 in team fielding %, 10th in defensive efficiency. Getting a different third baseman and moving Moncada back to 2nd would exacerbate this. He was a below-average second baseman; he's been outstanding at third. Plus, it is not unheard of for a player's offense to struggle when he's not comfortable on defense.


Team offense: 13th out of 15 in runs per game. 12th out of 15 in OPS.


Pitching was really more middle-of-the-road. 9th in team ERA.
You're right. If this front office takes the usual route of praying for breakout play from the prospects plus adding filler free agents, they will be back to the days of mired in mediocrity. I still firmly believe spending on a couple of premier free agents in 2020 (and maybe 2021) should put them firmly in the ranks of contention, especially now considering the Twins look to be the only real threat in the central for the coming seasons. Biggest holes are RF, DH, and starting pitching.

I'm cautiously optimistic this works out.
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:30 AM
GoSox2K3 GoSox2K3 is offline
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Originally Posted by central44 View Post
For the most part, the guys who the Sox were depending on to contribute did so--in a BIG way.

The problem with this year's team were the major holes at 2B, CF, RF, and DH. Not to mention the lack of pitching depth.

The rotation next year will feature Giolito, Cease, Kopech, and Lopez. Whether or not all of them should be considered for the role is another question, but there is really only one pitching spot available to be upgraded and the Sox have more than enough money to do so.

Seeing as Robert and Madrigal will be up two weeks into April, the Sox are only a RF and DH short--and they can fill both of those positions with quality veterans for far less than they were prepared to offer Manny Machado.

2020 should be a big jump for the Sox. 90+ wins might be a bit ambitious with all of the young players, but over 80 wins should be the expectation IMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
Only one pitching spot?

Giolito could regress. Kopech, Cease, and Lopez might take a year or more to get it together. They only have half a bullpen. Anyone could get hurt, and some will.

Ideally they would find a #1 starter, a #3 starter, and two high-leverage relievers. The #1 starter is Giolito insurance. The #3 pushes Kopech, Cease, and Lopez down in the pecking order to give them easier matchups and the option of moving the weakest to the bullpen. The high-leverage relievers are so we never have to see the likes of Ruiz again.
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I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but I do think the Sox are going to give those four every opportunity next year
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Originally Posted by A. Cavatica View Post
As they should. They need to replace the likes of Covey, Fulmer, Banuelos, Santiago, Detwiler, Santana, Despaigne, Ruiz, Minaya, and Vieira with actual major league pitchers. The best way to do that is to acquire top-end pitching, not more scrubs.
This. Even if Kopech and/or Cease struggle and take time to get it together, they WILL have spots in our rotation unless they get injured or have a major meltdown. That's how it should be. These two pitchers are top talents and have been among the top prospects in baseball. You don't just give up on these kind of guys and bury them in the bullpen or the minors if they're not lights out from the get go.

I've seen others suggest that the Sox need to fill at least 3 spots (if not four!) in their rotation from the outside. Total nonsense. They can't run this team like a bunch of chicken littles and burn through payroll and prospects to acquire 3 or 4 veteran starting pitchers because they're afraid that Giolito will regress and Cease and Kopech will be busts.

At most, the Sox should go for 2 starting pitchers: They should go out and get one TOR guy. They also should get a back of the rotation innings eater in case Lopez continues to struggle or one of their starters gets hurt.

Last edited by GoSox2K3; 09-30-2019 at 09:54 AM.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:39 AM
blurry blurry is offline
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My TOR targets would be Cole, then Strasburg. Getting 1 of those 2 plus another starter (like Quintana or Wheeler) would improve the rotation immensely. RF are DH are currently black holes as well. Castellanos has a great bat but an awful glove.
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:53 AM
HomeFish HomeFish is offline
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Originally Posted by GoSox2K3 View Post
This. Even if Kopech and/or Cease struggle and take time to get it together, they WILL have spots in our rotation unless they get injured or have a major meltdown. That's how it should be. These two pitchers are top talents and have been among the top prospects in baseball. You don't just give up on these kind of guys and bury them in the bullpen or the minors if they're not lights out from the get go.

I've seen others suggest that the Sox need to fill at least 3 spots (if not four!) in their rotation from the outside. Total nonsense. They can't run this team like a bunch of chicken littles and burn through payroll and prospects to acquire 3 or 4 veteran starting pitchers because they're afraid that Giolito will regress and Cease and Kopech will be busts.

At most, the Sox should go for 2 starting pitchers: The should go out and get one TOR guy. They also should get a back of the rotation innings eater in case Lopez continues to struggle or one of their starters gets hurt.
I think this line of thinking will be very popular with Sox management and with JR. Recall, leadership is already very skeptical of long contracts in general, and JR has stated in the past that he is especially skeptical of long contracts for pitchers. On top of that, both Machado and Harper are arguably underperforming their mega-contracts in Year 1, and while in theory this has nothing at all to do with Gerrit Cole or Stephen Strasburg, you have to imagine that in JR's head he's seeing this as a sign that he was right about big contracts for FAs.

There's a chance that the Sox will be able to fill the rotation entirely with cheap in-house talent. A small chance, but a chance. I can't see Sox leadership not rolling the dice on that chance. It's just too attractive to them.

Further, below Cole and maybe Strasburg (who might not opt out and might want to go home to...wait for it...San Diego), I'm skeptical of the value of the FA pitchers.

Even I might be tempted by the strategy of see what the homegrown talent can do, and then if the Sox are in it at the deadline try to find a starter via trade.
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2019, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nellie_Fox View Post
I guess I'm one of the 8 or 9 who still isn't sold that this team is ready to contend. There are more problems than just a couple of pitchers.


Team defense: Sox were 14th out of 15 in team fielding %, 10th in defensive efficiency. Getting a different third baseman and moving Moncada back to 2nd would exacerbate this. He was a below-average second baseman; he's been outstanding at third. Plus, it is not unheard of for a player's offense to struggle when he's not comfortable on defense.


Team offense: 13th out of 15 in runs per game. 12th out of 15 in OPS.


Pitching was really more middle-of-the-road. 9th in team ERA.
Contend? Not in 2020, but we should see a significant jump in offensive production and defensive consistency given the younger players on the team will have had another year of getting comfortable. Assuming those players don't take a step back and Robert and Madrigal can actually handle MLB pitching we should see a jump in offensive production.

Of course Gio needs to continue his dominance and Cease and Kopech both need to perform. Jury is out on Lopez but he really needs to find more consistency if he's going to be counted on.

Results and contention next year will come down FA acquisitions and continued development from the young players on the team, but we could well see them pushing toward WC contention if things go well and the window should crack wide open in 2021, but again, that's going to depend on who the team acquires to fill the holes and how well/soon the next tier of players develops.
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