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  #406  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:46 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
Wheeler would certainly be worth losing a 2nd round pick over; others (Ozuna, e.g.) not so much.
Please please PLEASE let Marcel Ozuna sign somewhere other than here. Heís not good anymore.
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  #407  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:01 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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If 2020 was a WS contending year for the Sox, then Wheeler might be worth the gamble. Problem is that whoever they get this offseason that is getting big money and under contract longer than a year, has to be a really good bet to be just as good in the future because those are the years that they are being acquired for. Wheeler looks like he has successfully recovered from his lengthy TJS finally, but his delivery and arm motion previously injured him in the first place. Unless he has changed that, he looks to be someone that can't be a lock for 28-30 starts 3-4 years from now with similar stuff. He also had 2 arm related injuries since TJS that, while minor, still aren't the most reassuring.

The Sox aren't a team that can absorb injuries to high salaried players well, so investing in a player like this just doesn't make sense for this particular offseason.

And again, Wheeler has been healthy for two straight, elite seasons. And he's not burdened with the mileage of others his age.


There's two different discussions here. Who is good enough and who is healthy enough. Wheeler wins over Bumgarner in both instances, and is our best non-Strasburg/Cole chance at a title in any year.
  #408  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:11 PM
blandman blandman is offline
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Mohoney - Ozuna had an .800 OPS last year and is two years removed from an over .900 OPS season. I hardly think he isn't "good anymore".


He's a better left fielder than Eloy, and he's probably pretty cheap. Sign him for $10-$12 million for three years to play left and have Eloy DH. Or sign him to DH and pretend Eloy can play left and at least you have a backup option.
  #409  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:19 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Mohoney - Ozuna had an .800 OPS last year and is two years removed from an over .900 OPS season. I hardly think he isn't "good anymore".


He's a better left fielder than Eloy, and he's probably pretty cheap. Sign him for $10-$12 million for three years to play left and have Eloy DH. Or sign him to DH and pretend Eloy can play left and at least you have a backup option.
Yeah, those 109, 107, 110 wRC+ totals in 2016, 2018, and 2019 make me think that 2017 was an outlier.

A low-.800 OPS is really nothing special for a corner outfielder these days. Heís like 8% better than average.
  #410  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:29 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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And again, Wheeler has been healthy for two straight, elite seasons. And he's not burdened with the mileage of others his age.


There's two different discussions here. Who is good enough and who is healthy enough. Wheeler wins over Bumgarner in both instances, and is our best non-Strasburg/Cole chance at a title in any year.
Soft tissue injuries are not the same as broken bones for pitchers.

And how do you know that Wheeler is the best option any year? Likely the best option would be to wait until next offseason or that deadline to see what the free agent/trade landscape is for TOR pitchers then.
  #411  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:31 PM
ChiSoxNationPres ChiSoxNationPres is offline
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I think the Sox getting Ozuna for a multi year deal will decrease their chances of winning a WS.
  #412  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:37 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Soft tissue injuries are not the same as broken bones for pitchers.

And how do you know that Wheeler is the best option any year? Likely the best option would be to wait until next offseason or that deadline to see what the free agent/trade landscape is for TOR pitchers then.
Well, yeah. Soft tissue injuries can be waaaaay worse than broken bones. Lots of "soft tissue" injuries have ended careers, can't think of many ended by broken bones.

Like I said, it appears Bum is fine, but a motorcycle crash that injures your throwing shoulder isn't something you take lightly. Hopefully our medical staff is up to the task.
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  #413  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:37 PM
Grzegorz Grzegorz is offline
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If they throw money at Ozuna they deserve to lose.
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  #414  
Old 11-19-2019, 09:40 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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If they throw money at Ozuna they deserve to lose.
100% agree. It's not a bridge that should be crossed. I'd rather find a replacement level player than give him anything of significance.
  #415  
Old 11-19-2019, 11:30 PM
RCWHITESOX RCWHITESOX is offline
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100% agree. It's not a bridge that should be crossed. I'd rather find a replacement level player than give him anything of significance.
I canít say Ozuna is worth the contract he is seeking but if all the Sox are looking at is replacement players then there going now where! I hope their all in this year and whether from free agency or trades get what they need to compete! Spend the going rate and make this team relevant; end of story!
  #416  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:10 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Originally Posted by ChiSoxNationPres View Post
Soft tissue injuries are not the same as broken bones for pitchers.

And how do you know that Wheeler is the best option any year? Likely the best option would be to wait until next offseason or that deadline to see what the free agent/trade landscape is for TOR pitchers then.

Are you a doctor now, or just a psychic? Dudes been healthy for the full slate two straight years. He's not an injury concern. No matter how many times you want to imagine he is.


He's not the best option. He's the only good option that will be relatively affordable by White Sox standards. They're looking at him getting $120-$140 million, and while his track record isn't Cole or Strasburg (which is why that number isn't $100 million higher), he's a good bet to be as good as them for the duration of any deal he gets.


I'm pushing for Strasburg and Cole...but if as we all suspect $250-$300 million on a pitcher isn't what the White Sox would ever do...you're not going to see a pitcher with Wheeler's talent available at such a low price. So strike now, or blow the team up and start over.
  #417  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:11 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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I canít say Ozuna is worth the contract he is seeking but if all the Sox are looking at is replacement players then there going now where! I hope their all in this year and whether from free agency or trades get what they need to compete! Spend the going rate and make this team relevant; end of story!
Yeah, but the going rate for Ozuna is probably not the best way to spend our money. Is an 800 OPS guy really worth ~$15M per when we have glaring hole in the staff? Perhaps, but I would prefer they use that $ elsewhere.
  #418  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:13 AM
blandman blandman is offline
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Yeah, but the going rate for Ozuna is probably not the best way to spend our money. Is an 800 OPS guy really worth ~$15M per when we have glaring hole in the staff? Perhaps, but I would prefer they use that $ elsewhere.

He's probably not getting $15 million per.


As a DH that's decent. Consider what it's replacing in our organization.
  #419  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:18 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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He's probably not getting $15 million per.


As a DH that's decent. Consider what it's replacing in our organization.
I think heíll get some team to do that on a short term deal, but I could be wrong. If heís a $10M a year players, sure, but every million after that really counts and starts taking away from harder to acquire assets than a ~3 WAR RF.
  #420  
Old 11-20-2019, 07:47 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
I think heíll get some team to do that on a short term deal, but I could be wrong. If heís a $10M a year players, sure, but every million after that really counts and starts taking away from harder to acquire assets than a ~3 WAR RF.
Plus, Ozuna will be turning 30 during the deal.

His defense has already fallen off a cliff, and any decline whatsoever with his bat makes that bat a liability for a corner outfield position.

Basically, we have to hope that his average-ish defense and his ever-so-slightly above average bat show absolutely no regression for the entire multiyear deal, commit to paying him full retail value, and give up an 80-ish pick to boot.

No thanks. Just get Dickerson or Calhoun instead. Or trade for Pederson or JBJ if the Dodgers or Red Sox want to do a salary dump.

Ozuna looks like Melky 2.0 to me: a guy who will hurt you if he plays every day and is put in a premium spot in the lineup, play his way into a bench role, and will never be benched because of his salary. Plus, I didnít even like Melky 1.0 when he was here.
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