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  #31  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:35 AM
longtimefan longtimefan is online now
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Originally Posted by central44 View Post
All I know is, stuff costs more in 2020 than it did in the mid 2000's, and if Reinsdorf isn't going to run a modern payroll appropriate for the current decade, none of what the Sox have done/plan to do is going to matter.....
You're right, if JR goes "cheap" we're in trouble. But Hahn has said repeatedly that the Sox will spend. I have to believe he didn't go out on his own to make that statement but had JR's blessing.
Regardless, even if the Sox are willing to spend that doesn't ensure talent will sign here. I still believe even if the Sox matched the Padres $300M offer, Machado would have picked SD. Remember the wife gets a say of were they will live. SD might be more tempting than Chicago.That means to me, that the Sox must overpay to get talent.
  #32  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm

I don't know where you are getting once -

Around 90 mil (so I am using a range of 81-99 mil, within 9 mil either way) - 2019, 2017, 2014, 2012
Under - 2018
Over - 2016, 2015, 2013, 2011

I think its a pretty fair statement. The numbers I am using are slightly lower as they are opening day payrolls and also don't include numbers such as deferred comp or player incentives. Your site includes those (so like, next year it is counting the 1 mil owed to Yonder).

Also, we have been under the league average payroll since 2012. The only time frame we consistently redlined spending over the average was immediately following the world series. Then after a big 2011 we saw payroll slashed in 2012 and have been under league average, usually significantly, ever since.
3 of the years you listed were rebuilding years (the last three) and even one of those was much nearly $100M to start the season. In 2012 the Sox were also much closer to $100M than $90M and both that year and 2014 saw significant bump to start the following season.

Removing 2017-2019 from the list because they were the core of the rebuilding years would give a more accurate assessment of his intentions.

From 2007-2016 the Sox averaged ~$109M payroll per season. That would appear to be the baseline and as has been pointed out league payrolls have taken a significant jump in the last 8 years going from ~$100M to ~$135M.

Assuming the Sox can field at least an average payroll they should hit at least $130M very soon though they might not start the season there they may want room to add talent either at mid-season or next year as needed.

However they should have $50-60M to play with this off season at least.
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  #33  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:51 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by HomeFish View Post
Ned Yost won two pennants this decade.
Ned Yost is also a better manager than Rick Renteria. I fail to see your point.
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  #34  
Old 11-15-2019, 11:56 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
I respect most of what you post, but this is garbage.
He was easily the worst manager in the AL Central last year. I would have taken any of the other 4 without thinking twice about it.

The concept of hiring a “Point A to Point B” manager only makes sense if you actually make the change when you get to Point B.
  #35  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:02 PM
kobo kobo is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
He was easily the worst manager in the AL Central last year. I would have taken any of the other 4 without thinking twice about it.

The concept of hiring a “Point A to Point B” manager only makes sense if you actually make the change when you get to Point B.
How are you determining that, exactly? Because as far as I am aware, there are no statistics to back up that opinion. You just don't like Renteria and the moves he makes in games.
  #36  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by voodoochile View Post
3 of the years you listed were rebuilding years (the last three) and even one of those was much nearly $100M to start the season. In 2012 the Sox were also much closer to $100M than $90M and both that year and 2014 saw significant bump to start the following season.

Removing 2017-2019 from the list because they were the core of the rebuilding years would give a more accurate assessment of his intentions.

From 2007-2016 the Sox averaged ~$109M payroll per season. That would appear to be the baseline and as has been pointed out league payrolls have taken a significant jump in the last 8 years going from ~$100M to ~$135M.

Assuming the Sox can field at least an average payroll they should hit at least $130M very soon though they might not start the season there they may want room to add talent either at mid-season or next year as needed.

However they should have $50-60M to play with this off season at least.
Those average payrolls went up because of revenue sharing, which is a source of revenue that is not open to the White Sox.
  #37  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:07 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by kobo View Post
How are you determining that, exactly? Because as far as I am aware, there are no statistics to back up that opinion. You just don't like Renteria and the moves he makes in games.
Right. I am using those moves I dislike to inform my opinion. This team is going absolutely nowhere until they change this “White Sox family” mom-and-pop attitude. I’m sure Ricky is a super-swell fella, but he can’t manage worth a damn.
  #38  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:11 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is online now
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Those average payrolls went up because of revenue sharing, which is a source of revenue that is not open to the White Sox.
That source of revenue has very much been open to the Sox as a bottom ten revenue team multiple times the past decade. What makes you think it’s not open to them?
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  #39  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
That source of revenue has very much been open to the Sox as a bottom ten revenue team multiple times the past decade. What makes you think it’s not open to them?
Because it’s not open to them. The White Sox are disqualified by their market.
  #40  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Because it’s not open to them. The White Sox are disqualified by their market.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2019...-proceeds.html

You’re right. Didn’t know that much was changed in the CBA. Some good cord-cutting moves were written in to get teams like the A’s off the MLB’s collective teet.
  #41  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:00 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is online now
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Ned Yost is also a better manager than Rick Renteria. I fail to see your point.
I am so down on every Chicago coach right now, but I keep this locker room in his hands and at least give him a run with a decent team instead of a transitional daycare.

His decisions have left everyone’s head scratching seemingly too often to this point, but I think the team responds well to him.

Who are the hot names in the coaching community ready for hire in the next few years?
  #42  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:48 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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The big question to me is whether or not Reinsdorf will be willing to spend before the winning comes. In the past, he's been willing to supplement a team that has had success - see after the 2005 season, when the Sox had a top-5 payroll. I'm pretty confident that once this team starts winning he'll be willing to do the same thing. But will he be willing to spend in order to get us to that point? I'm not so sure.

But I do hope that he recognizes the Sox are at a unique point in the team's history, where investing in the team and taking them up to that $125M-level could pay major dividends not only in terms of the wins/losses, but also in terms of fan interest and respect around the league. And that would in term help put that money back in Reinsdorf's pockets, making the investment worthwhile. If the Sox do something fun and sign Cole/Grandal/Castellanos or something like that, it would simultaneously erase the stigma that the Sox are a cheap team not willing to spend, and also make them the premier team in both the division and the city. Fans will come out to support that team, and I think it's an investment that would pay off financially.

And $125M is still a below-average payroll in the league.
  #43  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GoSox2K3 View Post
I came here fully expecting the thread about Abreu accepting the QO to be full of negativity and boy you guys didn't disappoint. This is in stark contrast to elsewhere online where this action was greeted positively or at least with a "meh".

The incessant negativity that fills this site on a daily basis over every move has gotten ridiculous. No wonder more and more people are taking a hiatus from here. Who has time to read for the hundredth time that the Sox will never sign any good players EVER or that they should white flag 2020 because Ricky is criminally incompetent?
There’s really only a couple people who have expressed displeasure and it’s their right to voice their opinion just like it is anyone’s here. The whole idea of a forum, anywhere in life, is to exchange varied opinions and insight and sports are an easy subject to find strong opinions on.

I think like any frustrated fan base things tend to get a little negative, but I find this forum to be much less nauseating with windsock negativity than the alternatives.

Also, stereotypes of this nature exist for a reason and like it or not, the Sox haven’t spent big on a FA in two decades so it’s not like those comments are without merit.
  #44  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:24 PM
Domeshot17 Domeshot17 is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
There’s really only a couple people who have expressed displeasure and it’s their right to voice their opinion just like it is anyone’s here. The whole idea of a forum, anywhere in life, is to exchange varied opinions and insight and sports are an easy subject to find strong opinions on.

I think like any frustrated fan base things tend to get a little negative, but I find this forum to be much less nauseating with windsock negativity than the alternatives.

Also, stereotypes of this nature exist for a reason and like it or not, the Sox haven’t spent big on a FA in two decades so it’s not like those comments are without merit.
Right, sorry I am not jumping for joy. I really do like Jose, I just think first base is a more relatively easy position to fill than say, CF or SS, and for a team that hasn't spent 100 mil in a while, tying up 20% of the payroll into an easier position to fill was not a great move to me.

I could be wrong, but discounting Shields because I believe SD picked up some of his salary, is this now the highest single season salary in White Sox history.... over a QO?
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  #45  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:56 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by Domeshot17 View Post
Right, sorry I am not jumping for joy. I really do like Jose, I just think first base is a more relatively easy position to fill than say, CF or SS, and for a team that hasn't spent 100 mil in a while, tying up 20% of the payroll into an easier position to fill was not a great move to me.

I could be wrong, but discounting Shields because I believe SD picked up some of his salary, is this now the highest single season salary in White Sox history.... over a QO?
I can't think of one higher. But I'm betting that by the end of this offseason it won't be the highest anymore.
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