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  #226  
Old 11-18-2018, 11:33 AM
Mohoney Mohoney is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo
Bingo. Lip casually posted a rumor, then later seemingly attributed it to George Offman, and offered a “take it with a grain of salt” disclaimer.

No link was provided.

That sparked discussion that presumed to know how the Sox braintrust is thinking about Collins.

So I googled “Yasmani Grandal White Sox,” and came up with the link I found, that could indicate an exact opposite conclusion.

My point is exactly what you’ve said. Unless/until something happens, this is all just hot stove talk, or more accurately, hot air. Maybe even cerebral flatulence.

I get that the Sox sucked last year and have sucked for a decade. I get that a vocal contingent wants Rick Hahn and KW strung up with piano wire, and/or JR flogged with tube socks filled with rolls of buffalo nickels. But can we all just relax for a bit and stop presuming omniscience?
No one said anything about “presuming to know.” I said “these moves suggest to me.”
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  #227  
Old 11-18-2018, 12:36 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
No one said anything about “presuming to know.” I said “these moves suggest to me.”
Yes, you definitely said that. And that’s entirely reasonable.

You also said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Right. They have come to the conclusion that he can’t hack it behind the plate, and now they are paving the way for a position change.
It’s the implicit certainty in that second statement (quoted above) to which I was responding. That statement wouldn’t even be warranted if the Sox DID sign Grandal, much less given that we can’t even find a link to a rumor about the Sox being interested in Grandal other than Lip (sans link) suggesting that George Offman allegedly suggested it, and then further suggesting we “take it with a grain of salt.” In addition, you didn’t even acknowledge that Collins and Zavala both were splitting C and DH duties for the first half of the season, accounting for Collins having more DH plate appearances than otherwise would be expected if he was backed up by an organizational minor leaguer.
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  #228  
Old 11-18-2018, 12:44 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Hereís a mathematical/logical representation of whatís happened here:

O + U = C

O = Out of context factoid

U = Unsubstantiated and unlinked rumor devoid of easily found complicating/conflicting context

C = Conclusion
  #229  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:53 PM
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Except I didnít come to any conclusion. All I did was agree with I Liked Manuel that he may be correct in his reasoning. Itís also possible that they still think the world of Collins but are working on a trade that includes him. There are lots of reasons why the team may be planning for a future that does not include Zack Collins behind the plate.
  #230  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
All Iím saying is that IF they did, it could just as easily be because they want him and Collins as their tandem, as it is that theyíve written off Collins as a catcher.
And all I'm saying that if that's what they are thinking, then that's a misallocation (over-allocation) of resources at catcher.
  #231  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lip Man 1 View Post
It's from noted Cub-fan boy George Offman so again you take it with a large grain of salt.
Lip, we are getting complaints from other members again about this. Can you provide a link to the source of this rumor?
  #232  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:33 PM
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Ofman does radio. There probably isn’t a link to be shared. I’m sure Lip isn’t lying about this.
  #233  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:36 PM
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I’m sure Lip isn’t lying either and definitely am not implying this. Adding a link to the source is responsible so that the discussion doesn’t veer off like it has. Year 2018, information is everywhere. Just need to link it. I’m sure Lip didn’t hear Offman doing a scoreboard update online in Idaho, so maybe he saw discussion about this on Twitter, for example.
  #234  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:39 PM
Frater Perdurabo Frater Perdurabo is offline
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Originally Posted by Tragg View Post
And all I'm saying that if that's what they are thinking, then that's a misallocation (over-allocation) of resources at catcher.
Maybe itís just me, but I prefer to confine my compliments and criticisms to actual actions, rather than rumor-based speculation about what might or might not be ďthinking.Ē

In my opinion, my long-term preference/pipedream scenario for the catcher position is:

2019: Platoon Narvaez/Castillo
Zavala starts at Charlotte
Collins starts at Birmingham
Draft Rutschmann
Trade Castillo mid-season; promote Zavala to Chicago and Collins to Charlotte

2020: Platoon Narvaez/Zavala
Collins starts at Charlotte
Rustschmann starts at Birmingham
Trade Narvaez mid-season; promote Collins to Chicago

2021: Platoon Zavala/Collins
Rutschmann starts at Charlotte

2022: Platoon Collins/Rutschmann
Keep Zavala in Charlotte as insurance
  #235  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:32 PM
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I scrolled through Ofmanís Twitter feed and found this:

https://twitter.com/georgeofman/stat...554119169?s=21

Maybe he discussed this over the air on WBBM? The way the Tweet is worded makes me think that he did.
  #236  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:37 PM
I_Liked_Manuel I_Liked_Manuel is offline
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Originally Posted by Mohoney View Post
Right. They have come to the conclusion that he canít hack it behind the plate, and now they are paving the way for a position change.
To DH? Seems like he can't hack it at the plate either, not a positive sign for the brain trust behind the 'rebuild'
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  #237  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Liked_Manuel
To DH? Seems like he can't hack it at the plate either, not a positive sign for the brain trust behind the 'rebuild'
He had the 8th-best OPS in the Southern League last year. He is going to strike out too much to hit in the middle of the order, but Iíll gladly take his power and his ability to draw walks in the #6 or #7 spot.
  #238  
Old 11-18-2018, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frater Perdurabo View Post
Maybe itís just me, but I prefer to confine my compliments and criticisms to actual actions, rather than rumor-based speculation about what might or might not be ďthinking.Ē

In my opinion, my long-term preference/pipedream scenario for the catcher position is:

2019: Platoon Narvaez/Castillo
Zavala starts at Charlotte
Collins starts at Birmingham
Draft Rutschmann
Trade Castillo mid-season; promote Zavala to Chicago and Collins to Charlotte

2020: Platoon Narvaez/Zavala
Collins starts at Charlotte
Rustschmann starts at Birmingham
Trade Narvaez mid-season; promote Collins to Chicago

2021: Platoon Zavala/Collins
Rutschmann starts at Charlotte

2022: Platoon Collins/Rutschmann
Keep Zavala in Charlotte as insurance
It'll be very interesting to see if Rutschman falls to the Sox at #3. It may be unlikely, but not impossible.

As far as that 2022 scenario, by then Zavala will (I think) have burned through his option years and couldn't be kept waiting in the wings as insurance. That's assuming, of course, that he's good enough to not be outrighted to Charlotte and make it through waivers.
  #239  
Old 11-18-2018, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tragg
And all I'm saying that if that's what they are thinking, then that's a misallocation (over-allocation) of resources at catcher.
I guess they think Grandal can spread some of his pitch-framing magic to his teammates and play more 1B/DH as he ages?
  #240  
Old 11-18-2018, 06:08 PM
Lip Man 1 Lip Man 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian26 View Post
I’m sure Lip isn’t lying either and definitely am not implying this. Adding a link to the source is responsible so that the discussion doesn’t veer off like it has. Year 2018, information is everywhere. Just need to link it. I’m sure Lip didn’t hear Offman doing a scoreboard update online in Idaho, so maybe he saw discussion about this on Twitter, for example.
Brian: I actually saw the tweet posted at another Sox fan site but I have no idea how to copy / paste a tweet to here from another source including Twitter.

And I appreciate you mentioning that I wasn't just making stuff up. I read it from Offman and given his reputation much like Levine's that's why I said you have to take it with a grain of salt.

That move if it happened would make little sense to me.

This wasn't the one that I originally saw, Offman provided more details in it but this is what I did find just now if it helps:

George Ofman

Verified account

@georgeofman
Nov 15
More
While the Sox are serious about Harper and Machado, a more realistic option could be Yasmani Grandal.
@WBBMNewsradio

Last edited by Lip Man 1; 11-18-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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