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  #31  
Old 01-12-2020, 05:41 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Ugh, seriously? Actually, you're wrong again. I said "rebuild cornerstone." Moncada isn't a prospect or rebuild cornerstone he's a full-fledged, established cornerstone.

If I were trading Arenado, you better believe I'd be demanding a players of Robert's caliber or a couple guys just a notch below. That's a rebuild cornerstone and anything less just isn't worth it.
Good luck getting something along those lines when the 2 years of control dwindles to 1 year.
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  #32  
Old 01-12-2020, 06:04 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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He wasn’t the best 3B in the game with his bat. His bat wasn’t even better than Moncada’s last year. Devers had a better bat. Bregman. Rendon. Bryant.

And the only one making $35 AAV on that list is Rendon. Again, that package is pretty good for a 5.5-6 WAR player making 2/$70, stupid acronyms notwithstanding.
Well, the only guy you could actually, even close to definitively say had a better year was Rendon. What are your awesome qualification stats for even typing that one out without laughing? Did Moncada hit 41 HRs (20 on the road) while having close stats across the board like Arenado >< does every single year. How many 3B reps did Bryant get? How many years has Devers been good?

How many SS do those guys have combined? The answer is two from Rendon. Arenado won four straight for good reason. For the sake of ending this I'll pull a Mahoney and change what I said and intended to say.
He IS the best 3b, most established all around 3b in baseball and very easily arguably the best with both the bat and glove.
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  #33  
Old 01-12-2020, 06:09 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Good luck getting something along those lines when the 2 years of control dwindles to 1 year.
Good luck explaining to your fans why you accepted a ****ty trade offer because you were escared. I'd rather have him for two prime years, let him walk and take a comp pick than take a deal of a bunch of warm bodies and a total crapshoot arm. I'd have wiped my butt with that offer and faxed it back.
  #34  
Old 01-12-2020, 06:39 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Well, the only guy you could actually, even close to definitively say had a better year was Rendon. What are your awesome qualification stats for even typing that one out without laughing? Did Moncada hit 41 HRs (20 on the road) while having close stats across the board like Arenado >< does every single year. How many 3B reps did Bryant get? How many years has Devers been good?

How many SS do those guys have combined? The answer is two from Rendon. Arenado won four straight for good reason. For the sake of ending this I'll pull a Mahoney and change what I said and intended to say.
He IS the best 3b, most established all around 3b in baseball and very easily arguably the best with both the bat and glove.
Batting runs above average:

Bregman +53
Rendon +43
Devers +32
Moncada +30
Arenado +28

OPS+:

Bregman 162
Rendon 153
Moncada 141
Suarez 134
Devers 132
Bryant 131
Arenado 128

wRC+:

Bregman 168
Rendon 154
Moncada 141
Bryant 136
Suarez 135
Devers 133
Donaldson 132
Arenado 128
  #35  
Old 01-12-2020, 06:44 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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batting runs above average:

Bregman +53
rendon +43
devers +32
moncada +30
arenado +28

ops+:

Bregman 162
rendon 153
moncada 141
suarez 134
devers 132
bryant 131
arenado 128

wrc+:

Bregman 168
rendon 154
moncada 141
bryant 136
suarez 135
devers 133
donaldson 132
arenado 128
As I suspected, clown stats that like to “adjust” actual stats.


ba-315
hr-41
rbi-118

Some guys touch one line here or there for season, but he’s simply the best all-around and has been for a while. Bust out the career lines on those things that actually matter while you’re at it.

Last edited by KRS1; 01-12-2020 at 06:50 PM.
  #36  
Old 01-12-2020, 07:11 PM
Mohoney Mohoney is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
As I suspected, clown stats that like to “adjust” actual stats.


ba-315
hr-41
rbi-118

Some guys touch one line here or there for season, but he’s simply the best all-around and has been for a while. Bust out the career lines on those things that actually matter while you’re at it.
I already did. You ignored it.

He has a 200-point OPS difference away from Coors, .995 home to .799 away. A .799 OPS would put him right around the middle of the pack offensively at 3B.

He’s basically Scott Rolen, with a little less offensive ability.
  #37  
Old 01-12-2020, 07:33 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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https://www.baseballamerica.com/stor...s-best-talent/
  #38  
Old 01-13-2020, 10:57 AM
kittle42 kittle42 is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Good luck explaining to your fans why you accepted a ****ty trade offer because you were escared. I'd rather have him for two prime years, let him walk and take a comp pick than take a deal of a bunch of warm bodies and a total crapshoot arm. I'd have wiped my butt with that offer and faxed it back.
I get the notion that one of the best players in the game should demand the kind of return we would think such a name would command. But that simply isn't how the game operates. Just as important as Arenado's talent and performance are the years of control left, his current salary vs. the market, and Colorado's view of its ability to compete over Arenado's remaining years of control.

Just saying "This guy is a perennial triple crown contender, so you have to pay for that" makes logical sense, but it's not how the business works.
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  #39  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:20 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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I get the notion that one of the best players in the game should demand the kind of return we would think such a name would command. But that simply isn't how the game operates. Just as important as Arenado's talent and performance are the years of control left, his current salary vs. the market, and Colorado's view of its ability to compete over Arenado's remaining years of control.

Just saying "This guy is a perennial triple crown contender, so you have to pay for that" makes logical sense, but it's not how the business works.
Well, problem is not many of those guys have gotten traded in their primes right after signing a new contract with their draft team. Really, I just don’t think they trade him at all. In all honesty, I think the Rockies leaked that offer and are saying “this is something we rejected in favor of Nolan.” I hope he stays in Colorado forever and continues to be the stud he is.
  #40  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:32 AM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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How very wrong, market value for his services are what he deserves and any team in the league would gladly take on his contract. No one gives a **** how much Arenado is making.
This is incredibly naive. Of course teams care how expensive the contract is. There are teams out there that you couldn't give Arenado away to. The Indians for one, maybe the Twins as well. They aren't going to pay $35M for one player, regardless of how good he is.

Connecting it with the Sox, it's the same reason why guys like Sale and Quintana had more trade value a few years ago than Mike Trout has right now. Trout is obviously the best player in the game, but if the Angels decided to blow it all up right now and trade Trout away, he's not going to fetch a return equivalent to Moncada/Kopech or Eloy/Cease unless the Angels throw in a lot of money.
  #41  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:44 AM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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This is incredibly naive. Of course teams care how expensive the contract is. There are teams out there that you couldn't give Arenado away to. The Indians for one, maybe the Twins as well. They aren't going to pay $35M for one player, regardless of how good he is.

Connecting it with the Sox, it's the same reason why guys like Sale and Quintana had more trade value a few years ago than Mike Trout has right now. Trout is obviously the best player in the game, but if the Angels decided to blow it all up right now and trade Trout away, he's not going to fetch a return equivalent to Moncada/Kopech or Eloy/Cease unless the Angels throw in a lot of money.
Hopefully you’re right about Cleveland, because I’d sure like Lindor out of our division.

Like I said, these guys haven’t gotten traded and this offer was rejected so I guess we can have differing opinions here. Can someone give me an example of the low return for a homegrown superstar in his prime on a mega deal in MLB history? The opt out they gave him was dumb as hell, but that is a trade no GM should be forced to make. I’d rather be the Nats and try to retain your guys and fail than be forced into giving up prime years of superstar’s careers.

Last edited by KRS1; 01-13-2020 at 11:50 AM.
  #42  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:14 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Originally Posted by KRS1 View Post
Hopefully you’re right about Cleveland, because I’d sure like Lindor out of our division.

Like I said, these guys haven’t gotten traded and this offer was rejected so I guess we can have differing opinions here. Can someone give me an example of the low return for a homegrown superstar in his prime on a mega deal in MLB history? The opt out they gave him was dumb as hell, but that is a trade no GM should be forced to make. I’d rather be the Nats and try to retain your guys and fail than be forced into giving up prime years of superstar’s careers.
Off the top of my head, Stanton to the Yankees? And even in that deal the penny-pinching Marlins had to pay so that the Yankees could take him off their hands.
  #43  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:16 PM
KRS1 KRS1 is offline
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Off the top of my head, Stanton to the Yankees? And even in that deal the penny-pinching Marlins had to pay so that the Yankees could take him off their hands.
Ehhhhh, I don’t even come close to putting Stanton in the same category as Nolan. Apples and oranges.
  #44  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:26 PM
Marqhead Marqhead is offline
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Stanton was coming off .281/59/132...
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  #45  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:28 PM
ChiTownTrojan ChiTownTrojan is offline
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Ehhhhh, I don’t even come close to putting Stanton in the same category as Nolan. Apples and oranges.
That's because you're using hindsight. At the time of the trade, Stanton was coming off an MVP and was considered to be maybe the best hitter in the game.
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